Dance with Jaclyn Brown

Professional dancer Jaclyn Brown talks about her career with RDT, her dance style and journey, modern dance history, and all about technique and expression.

“In the Telling” has some fun interviews coming up; I’ve spoken lately with comic book creators, a prolific screenwriter and an RDT choreographer. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss anything.

You can find out more about “In the Telling” at lizzylizzyliz.com

Check out the “In the Telling” Podcast channel on YouTube for bonus content.  

Theme music by Gordon Vetas

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
It's very important not only and dance but in life to continue to look at each day through a new lens or try a different approach. When something isn't working, try something else and I really feel like cultivating. That idea of reinvestigation is what is going to make us better conflict resolution All across the board.

spk_1:   0:21
The voice you just heard belongs to Jacqueline Brown.

spk_0:   0:24
My name is Jacqueline Brown, and I am a dancer with Repertory Dance Theatre, and this is my sixth season with them, although it's kind of a strange end to the season. And, yeah, I am almost 30 years old. I have a family. I've been married for seven years, almost eight years, and I have a 2.5 year old daughter. So that's a little bit about me

spk_1:   0:46
who joined me to answer all my questions about our D T and her dance style and journey. I'm your host, Liz Christianson, and it's all in the telling Welcome to Episode 35 with my guest Jacqueline Brown in the intro. You heard that Jacqueline had a baby in the middle of her professional career to hear all about that unique experience and how it affected her body and her contract and her insights into her expressive work. Check out in the tellings bonus content on YouTube. Who are you as a dancer? That's a That's a fun question. So I feel like

spk_0:   1:25
as a dancer, I am not the traditional woman. Perhaps so, especially in the classical modern work that we dio, Um, there is sort of anaesthetic for a woman who's very dainty and very light. And just how you know womanly and my aesthetic has always been like strength, like I love to keep up with the boys When we go across the four, I love to try to jump as high as them and do all the parts that they do. I love learning their parts on the side of the stage. I just love that kind of energy. And so that's been really interesting for me to tackle, because although we do contemporary works that are really good for that type of energy, it's been difficult for me in the classical modern works because it's just a little bit more of ah, traditional setting, if you will energetically for a woman to be partnered with a man who is doing things for her, and I like to do things for myself. And so I tend to possibly thrive more in, like solo environments where I can be on my own and stand my own ground and tell my own story. Although, of course, everybody loves a partners, so that's I guess, a little bit about me and what you can expect to see.

spk_1:   2:43
What's your training journey been? How did you get to Artie T.

spk_0:   2:46
So I started at such a long journey, but I started dancing when I was three. In a small town, I lived in the country. It was very, very small. Town rules about Utah that training I soon began to realize wasn't going to be enough. If I wanted to be a professional dancer, which, as strange as it sounds, I knew like when I was, like, 12 or 13 0 this is what I want to do. It's so weird that a young child can understand that, But I really knew, like, this is what makes me happy. This is what I want to do. This is my calling. So I decided that I needed to seek out better training and So the closest place that had better training or was a better studio was in Heber, and that was an hour and 1/2 away from my home. So as soon as I got my learners permit, my mom started driving me back and forth. It was like every day in the summer for four days, and we would just take class at the studio to make sure it was a good fit. We've decided it was a good fit. They were. They had a much heavier concentration on classical ballet, which is what I needed. I locked technique. As soon as I got my license, I actually moved away from my family and I lived with a host family in Hebrews so that I could pursue my training site, transferred high schools, and I did my junior and senior year there with this really rigorous studio. That was mainly about Lee, so I went from kind of like competition, contemporary stuff, not really a lot of techniques small town like pom pom to classical ballet where we were doing full length bellies. I was doing variations on point and then a teacher that I had there was a dancer on Odyssey Dance Theatre, and I was interested in them. And so she kind of got me set up with an audition and I auditioned for them, and I actually got an apprenticeship with them. So I did that for the first year out of high school. So then that was really different, cause their work is really, like commercial. So from ballet to kind of more commercial, and it just didn't it wasn't a good fit like it was my first job. I was 18 and I decided that I just wanted to go to school. So then I left that job and I went to your view, which is the most wonderful college program ever. I love them so much. I can't say enough good things about You views dance program, but went through that program. That's where I found Angie, who danced on the company for, I think, 18 years with Repertory Dance Theatre. And so she made that connection for me with Artie T. I started going to all of their summer. Intense is would see all of their shows would write my concert critique on it, and I was just amazed at the breath of work that they did because they didn't just do one style. There were multiple styles that spanned generations that they were doing. So yeah, I auditioned over and over. They hired me as soon as I got my degree. And the rest is history.

spk_1:   5:22
Talk to me about the breadth of R D T does, because as a repertory company, by definition they Reese metal recycle. But they re stage works that have been previously done. What is the unifying factor for what makes it an R D T repertoire and what doesn't make you into Arditti repertoire? So that's really

spk_0:   5:43
interesting. Our our mission is like to preserve dance history, so anything that we think is a value in and that needs to be preserved in that perhaps other companies can not afford to do or maybe don't see is a priority. We take that into our rectory, so we are really trying to cover the last 100 years of modern ants and make sure that it's preserved so that these this new generation of dancers can see the timeline of how dance has evolved and where they've come from. To better understand where we're going as a dance community, you know, we try to be versatile. There are things that Linda likes more like, perhaps more classical. Modern stuff is her jam. She really likes Jose Lamone work. Doris Humphrey work. Paul Taylor, Martha Graham, those classical modern dance premieres. And that's really important to her, with her lineage through Virginia Tenor of You. It's important to her to preserve that, and I feel that other people like maybe the younger generation of dancers, maybe Nick Sandys, who's our artistic associate. I believe, um, is pushing for us to also have that contemporary. So we do a lot of the GA, ga. Based stuff I can't What really makes and already t piece a piece is just the relationships that we continue to nurture with the same choreographers. So we have had the same gaga based artists come to set work on us multiple times we have had the same person come and teach. Jose Lamone, like Nina Watt has come for years and years and years, decades to teach the Jose Lamone. So we just nurture these relationships with these people and we continue to work with them, and that's why you see the same kinds of work showing up in our rep because we enjoy working with these same people.

spk_1:   7:34
If I can, like, draw on academic parallel to it, it sounds a lot like kind of getting as close to a primary source as you can.

spk_0:   7:42
Absolutely Yes. Oh, Nina. What was hand selected by Jose Lamone out of college? Actually, which is a really fascinating story because he's like the person you read about in textbooks. And here he was. He plucked her out when she was very, very young, and she didn't. She's been with them for 40 plus years, so she is very close to the source be closest to the source. And each time we do a whole xylem own work, we get a certified letter from the Jose Lamone Company saying you're doing this right. It's close to the source. Congratulations. Here's your name on a piece of paper to make it official kind of things. So I'm very confident that we do the best that we can to stay close to the source.

spk_1:   8:20
You do a stage works, and I know that you have been a rehearsal director before. Well, that mean for people who come from like a theater background or a film background that what is that job?

spk_0:   8:32
So it's really interesting, because when Artie T. Began, it was ran is more of a democracy, and then it's gone through phases where certain people have been in charge and now the company is sort of running itself. I mean, we have a bunch of company members who have been around majority of us for 678 years, So we don't really have much need for people to be coming down from the office and running a rehearsal because we're efficient enough. We know enough about the work were educated enough that we can put up works ourselves. Their time may be better spent writing grants and the officer doing these other things. So what they do is they choose a person who they feel is closest to the source, and they delegate that piece of work to them and say, You guys are gonna set this together But this person has the final say basically, so that's kind of how a temporary rehearsal director position works and it will shift for me to other people in the company. But I've been around a long enough not long enough now that I've had the opportunity to do it several times because we've recycled these works like you were kind of saying where we had we performed a piece four years ago and now that peace is coming back and I'm one of the only people who has performed that peace and everybody else left the company. So I am closest to the source because I had that previous experience and it's my job to share that experience with the new people.

spk_1:   9:54
Are you often in the performance as well when you're the rehearsal director, Norm Normally,

spk_0:   9:59
always. Yeah, it's just a way to kind of I don't want to say cut corners, But But Delegate, they have a lot on their plate, and so I'm acting as a performer. And then if they and it's a it's an honor, a privilege, really, to be able to be the one to say I'm going to reset Daniela comedy Ogonis theater piece and so I'm happy to do it. Yeah, it's interesting, though, because we are with our peers, so you know, it is difficult to navigate. We're all on the same playing filled and we all respect each other until somebody has to have the final say. So it's been interesting trying Teoh respect everybody's opinion, but still kind of not not developed too much of a hierarchy and respect each other. That makes sense.

spk_1:   10:44
Yeah, yeah, but not that, like, final edit. Yeah, Yeah, exactly how are you? How do you assess yourself as a dancer? This is maybe a two part question you are when you are having to edit yourself, either in a solo thing that you are creating or a piece where you're the rehearsal director. But you're also in it. How? What kind of feedback are you looking for? Yeah,

spk_0:   11:11
um, that's really difficult when you're in the piece. Of course, we we do use outside ice eso generally, what will happen is say, I'm setting Daniela Tommy's theater piece, which is the most recent one that I've set, and I will get a certain amount of time to set that piece. So I think I spent one week, maybe two weeks. It's about a 12 to 15 minute piece. And so I had the time on my own. Nobody else looking. And then I present the final product to a rehearsal director such as Linda or Nick, And then they say, Really good. But I have a question about this and they will relay that information generally through me rather than to everyone. Publicly, they'll say, Okay, we noticed that this is happening. I seem to remember being like this, so I'm kind of that liaison in a way. But there is somebody else there who's watching and saying, Um, okay, I don't really think that you're doing it right. So it's not just me who is in charge of telling me that I'm doing something wrong before anything hits the stage, Linda is gonna be down in the studio with us and making sure that all the loose ends air time up and that we look clean and crisp and ready to go.

spk_1:   12:21
Well, I would assume that and some of your solo work you are choreographing yourself. Yes, so yeah, that's really

spk_0:   12:29
difficult. Choreographing on herself is difficult. I like to not a lot of the times because of that problem. It's problematic because you can't really see, but I mean, obviously, video is a great tool. If you're filming yourself and you're able to watch the playback, it's not the same as a live performance, But you can get a good idea about how ideas air registering if they're effective and if they're working. But when I have been in my pieces in the past, I always have somebody come and look at a worker. So I'll have, like, a temporary showing where people will come and they'll say, Not think specifically about me. But they'll discuss my ideas and my through line of thought much like writing, and they'll say this transition doesn't really make sense to me or why are you mentioning this? It's all very confusing or they'll say, Yeah, very clear ideas that you present. You do this structure a B A. So it's really important to have people that balance your ideas off of so that you can make sure that you're getting across what you want to get across. So I would never choreograph something on myself and not have somebody to bounce it off of in that second opinion or third or fourth opinion, too,

spk_1:   13:36
a za storytelling podcast. I'm really interested in the structure that you just mentioned in terms of like a B A, because I think dance when I consume it as an audience member often seems to me to be kind of divided quite clearly into plots based storytelling and, um, evocative abstract, either emotional or intellectual. Um, and not often something that I can clearly see, like a blend or a variation of. So what kind of structures are you working with? That's a really

spk_0:   14:12
interesting question, because I often get that feedback with modern dance, that it's sort of elusive and that people do not enjoy that and that it frustrates them because they want to either. Like ballet. We'll give you a very sure plot. You can even look in the program, and it will say Juliette meets Romeo and then they walk across the stage and there, gesturing, and they're doing this caricature thing So people like that. A lot of people like that because they want to be told what to think and you know what to do, want to see and what they should understand about it. And then there's the other side of things which I think you're talking about is more like Dance Theatre, where it's like they're clearly just kind of improvising, working with these very abstract ideas and they don't want me to get it on. Well, there's those two ends of the spectrum, and in between is where I'm interested in playing because you want to give people something to hold on to. And so it could be anything memorable, recognizable like a simple gesture, like a wave. Everybody understands the gesture that is a wave. So you incorporate these humanistic gestures into your movement, and they also have an emotion attached them so people can then relate and come on that journey with you and I sometimes find that more. That dance Butor type of stuff isn't relatable because they're not incorporating maybe humanistic characteristics into their work. They're just kind of movement for movements. Take as far as I go. I am a more structured type of choreographer. I just created a piece on my husband and I. That was simple, walking for most of it, and we walked different pathways on the floor. But think about how many different ways you can interpret a walk. I mean, it's still interesting. It's an age old idea, but it's still interesting, and even my husband, who is a non dancer, can enjoy exploring with that and so you can walk in, Ah, commanding your coming here with me type of way. You can walk in a lazy kind of way or like a stroll through the park. So it is fun to play with structure in my opinion and to bring the audience along with you and sometimes even just let them sit back and enjoy feel when there's in structure. And when there is structure, it's easier for the audience to sit back and be like I understand this. It's lighthearted. It's easy. They're drawing patterns on the floor. Great. I'm just gonna enjoy,

spk_1:   16:34
has a dancer where your instrument is you. What are you doing to train and care for? And keep your instrument good on ready. Uh, during this time specifically, let's do both. Let's because I would imagine that it looks pretty different. Yeah, you know, it's it's hard

spk_0:   16:54
because when we're working on contract, it's actually pretty difficult to get that cross training in, because, I mean, I live 30 minutes away from the studio. I leave my house by a I don't get home until five, and I have a daughter in a family, so it's really hard to fit all of that in, and it's actually been a really great pleasure during quarantine time to be ableto always get that in all that cross training. So I don't know if I mentioned this to you or not, but I am a certified personal trainer, So I'm really into fitness and not just like oh, I do bar like kind of movement based stuff like yoga. Like I like toe lift weights. I like to do squats and have you lifting all that kind of stuff. So it's been really fun for me to spend, like a least in our day doing workouts, and I like to film them, put him on social media. People hold me accountable. I have discussions about nutrition. I'm also working for its my certified non neutral nutrition specialist certification. There's that whole other side of fitness that maybe isn't as elegant and beautiful is dance and artistic, but it's still important on the less because what we do with our tea tea is very endurance based and strength based. I mean, I am lifting men. It's not always them lifting me. I lift them and we have dances where we will be dancing for 20 minutes straight, and some of that will be running, you know, So it's important to me to have both strength training and endurance training like more cardio sessions. I'm lucky because I have a big living room, so I am able to take advantage of a lot of these online classes that are happening. Luckily, I can just give myself class, so I don't really have to wait around for, like, a scheduled class or pay for a class. I just opened up my notebook of already T classes that I've always taught, and I just pulled from the Artie T vitamins or basics that we call. So there's like, certain exercises that I'm like, OK, I know that I haven't articulated my spine in a while, so I probably should try to find my spinal joints and articulate through those. So they're definitely basic vitamins that I'm trying to take every day in the form of different exercises to keep my body fine tune because working out and dancing is not the same. So you do have to sort of approach them very differently and do both of them consistently.

spk_1:   19:12
So you said vitamins, but that articulating to the spine and my brain instantly went to like piano scales. Is that limited basis? Absolutely. I mean, think

spk_0:   19:21
about why I was a musician. I played the violin for, like, 10 years. And what do you do to warm up? You do scales. You do arpeggios. You do certain things actives. You know that your singing to warm up, right? And so if you are a wonderful pianist and you're playing Mozart Motor, I mean is basically, if you break it down, it's just a bunch of scales, right? And so you have to always make sure that you're focusing on those basics because then when you go to do these wonderfully complex things, like the dances that we dio or Mozart when you're playing the piano, you're not as crisp. You're not as tuned into where that note is, and it's the same with our body. You know, you have to be tuned into where my hip is when the when I lift my leg because it is your body and you have to make sure that you're treating in a healthful way, like I can't just kick my leg up. I need to make sure that anatomically things air hacking happening correctly so that I'm not going to be injuring myself. Where's the piano? You make a mistake, and it's like, Okay, whatever. We still make mistakes, but it does affect our bodies in a different way. So interesting how the body is the instrument in that changes things a little bit.

spk_1:   20:33
I never really thought of it as a parallel with the piano, but yeah, if I miss playing no, on the piano, I don't Didn't break my piano. Yeah, you played a wrong note.

spk_0:   20:41
Yeah, yeah, but you know, the more that you practice just those simple skills, the less likely you are to be, you know, making mistakes. And so it's important that we continue to rehearse doing that so that that muscle memory is staying intact. For when I do go back into the studio, who knows how quickly I'm going to have to jump back into some of our repertory and how complicated it will be. I mean, we might have a show that we have to take on tour a month later, and also, that's not a lot of time to make sure that you're jumping back in and jumping in safely. So it is important at this time that we're doing those things.

spk_1:   21:12
How much of what you're talking about in terms of like, the basics is really what you mean by technique. When you say I didn't have technique, I needed to learn my technique.

spk_0:   21:21
Personally, I feel like this is a little bit blurred because what happened historically is ballet was very codified, very, very codified. It was like you stand with your feet in this position and I don't care if your hips are different from your hips, your stand in this position kind of thing. And if you don't have this 100 day degree, turn out Well, sorry, you're just not meant for dance kind of thing. So modern, it's when it came along, it was more like we're gonna take our shoes off and we're gonna put these togas on, and we're going to dance how we want to. So I hesitate to say that it's as codified because it's not as Bali. But there are these, as we were talking about modern historical modern, its pioneers like Doris Humphrey and Jose Lamone, that we train in their techniques extensively. It's just a little bit. I feel more forgiving on the bottom. So, for example, Doris Humphrey, Her whole idea was about fallen recovery and how that's a natural rhythm of life. And so instead of you have to lift your leg here, whether you like it or not, it was like everybody falls differently. But there is a right way to do it elegantly and beautifully and artistically. So those are the sort of things I'm talking about. I do certain Jose Lamone exercises, or I'll do what we call a drop swing to kind of feel mo mentum and to tune back into that dynamic change in the use of weight and the use of air and breathing and how that informs what you're doing. So those are the sort of vitamins that we talk about in modern dance? I hope that answered your

spk_1:   22:49
question. Yeah, yeah, there's this quote that I pulled from one of the things that you sent me. Oh, OK, come, and I I didn't put in my notes where I pulled it from, so I apologize. But you said you use the word reinvestigated. When you were talking about describing a dance piece. Well, when you dance a piece. Well, live. What you've done is you've reinvestigated it. And I wanted you to elaborate on what you meant by that idea. I'm a type

spk_0:   23:18
A personality, and everything in my life is black and white, and dance is the only place where that doesn't happen. And I really enjoy that gray area. And so what I mean by that is there's a lot of structure in our lives. We get up, we brush our teeth, we do the same routine and at dance and at work, it's no different. We do these dances all the time, so we sometimes they're rehearsing these dances like there are some dances. I've probably danced hundreds of times. And so this reinvestigation does become important so that you continue to discover things. Otherwise, why are you repeating the same thing over and over again? It's it's that artistic side of things. So I guess what I was trying to explain there is you should never dance apiece the same way twice, because what good does that do you? It's just more interesting. Anybody can get up on stage and you can tell him what to do. But that's not what people are looking for, and that's not what they pay the sea they pay to see you pour your heart out onto the stage and what you bring to the table specifically as an individual and how that differs from them. Or how they can relate to that continuing to reach out and discover the diversity that's out there so that you can reach more people through the art form as well.

spk_1:   24:35
When you're reinvestigating what variables what things are variables and what things are like. No, this has to be this way.

spk_0:   24:41
Eso standing on one leg. I will definitely I'm not about to be like, Oh, how can I make this difference? Because, I mean, that's why you repeat things right? Because there are certain things you need to now and that are difficult and that you just have to literally focus on. I'm standing on one leg and you can't think about the emotional side of all the time. Eso That's why we practice it so consistently. But there are certain landmarks throughout a piece where I'm like OK, that lift went well. Now I'm going to go over here and I'm gonna do my thing, and I'm going to give myself some freedom here. But OK, now this is a group moment, and so I don't get that freedom anymore, especially when you're working working with a group. It's important that you were in tune with them and that you're not off on your own path. We need to have our paths coincide at certain times throughout the dance and in certain dances that maybe a lot. There may be a lot of opportunity in other dances, not so much dances where people are very specific about what they wanted. They don't want you commenting on their work, so that's kind of our job to determine is how much freedom I don't want to say. Am I allowed? But should I give myself to respect this? Put this choreographer's wishes So it's an interesting balance. It's interesting because I've been a dancer for so long, like it's been almost 27 years that I've been doing this, and I still just marvel how hard it is to put it into words, how complex and how difficult it is to explain to somebody else. You know, it's just it's a wonderful, ever changing thing, and that's why it never gets old.

spk_1:   26:17
Why is dance education valuable? Let's say specifically for non dancers, non professional dancers.

spk_0:   26:24
I mean, I think dance has its role in everyone's life, whether or not you're even interested in dance. Or if you want to

spk_1:   26:31
be a professional, or if you just

spk_0:   26:32
want to dance leisurely, there is a place for it. I mean, first of all, we all have a body. We all have that in common, so dancing is something good for your body. It's something creative for your mind, and it's nurturing you. It's physical movement. So even if you're not interested, or perhaps you don't want to pursue it and it's just sort of, I mean soon end that you enjoy. That's okay because it involves creative problem solving conflict resolution, all these ideas that are important just to the human race. And so I feel like dances simply, it can just be a vehicle for you. For all of those discoveries that you need to inanely as a human, you need to make those discoveries and and you can use dance to do that or you cannot, um, but obviously I think dance is good for everyone and everyone should choose. What the fuck does it at least ride in that vehicle for a moment and just see how it can open you up to these new ideas and how you can discover more about yourself? But it's specifically for people who were kind of on the fence, which maybe that's what the question you're kind of getting out because, you know, I need a lot of people like that through our outreach education. Outreach is people who are dancing and who are on the verge of maybe not so. Sure, if I want to pursue this and you know what, That's totally fine. Dance will serve its role for you in your life as long as you need it to, and then it won't. And I really just believed that the stage will keep calling you if if you need it. And so for me it has like there's been plenty of times that I wanted to stop or that I felt it wasn't necessary or wasn't giving me what I needed. But there was still something in me that knew I had more to learn. So maybe for those people, dances taught them what they need to learn, and they're ready to move to a different vehicle in life and and continue to learn those things.

spk_1:   28:25
I know about RG T. Because I danced and choreographed as part of my work in musical theater. Artie T. Offers open houses twice a year, where you can take a full day of dance classes on a huge variety of styles. I went to the last open house and tried flamenco, Bollywood, modern and ballet and loved my experience. I've seen some of the work Artie T has presented to the public over the last 20 ish years, and since quarantine began, I've been so impressed with our DT's commitment to offer classes remotely and the education already t brings into Utah's public schools.

spk_0:   28:58
You know, I am a Utah native, so I've lived here all of my life, and I've really underappreciated the lack of dance in other states. And here in Utah, we have a wonderful and beautiful environment happening where dances even available in every high school. That's unheard of in other places, and Artie T. Is such a wonderful organization because we are making sure that everybody has the opportunity to dance because we will do a lot of education outreach. We do a lot of outreach in the schools, and we will be teaching like kindergartners. Professional dancers will be teaching kindergarteners. When I was a kindergartner, I didn't have that opportunity, and it's so wonderful to be able to go in and start those wheels, turning those creativity wills. They're moving at much earlier ages here in our state, and it's just so wonderful that we make that a priority because a lot of other companies they don't and they are just performing. And it's like, Look at me and this big hot thing Come and watch me perform. I'm so wonderful and they're not giving back in the way the rt to use giving back to our community. Um, we just had a meeting today, actually with the company, and in years past, it's been our goal to reach 50,000 Children in the schools. And this year, even despite all of the Corona virus stuff that happened, we still reached the goal of 41,000 kids this year that we've served. So it just feels so good to be able to not just worry about me and my own path in the dance world. But to continue that process of looking backward and kind of lifting up these people who are just starting their journey, who don't know where to go already. T is the place for everyone, for young people who need creative movement classes. Right now, we're providing that to the college student that we go see on tour. And we do residencies at their university. I mean, we are really all about giving back to them. So I just thought that that was important to mention because we've been around for 55 years. Now, this is our 55th anniversary, and I just love them so much.

spk_1:   31:06
Where do you think you're headed from here? I don't I don't necessarily like your five year plan in your 10 year plan. But like, uh, what do you want to have happen? Um, for you with dance. Going forward? Um, you know, when I first

spk_0:   31:18
started with already t I was not interested in teaching, which is it Sounds strange. Just say, because it's such a big part of what we dio and Artie T has given me a change of heart. Um, I love to teach Now. I would definitely see myself going to get my MF a so that I can teach at the university level. So usually that's a two or three year program. So so when I wrap things up with Artie T, I may still perform a bit of freelancing and other things, but I'm really interested in, just like returning to my university and other universities and and nurturing these upcoming artists to give them the information that they need to be successful. It's really so important to me. So that's that's what's in my sights. Next.

spk_1:   32:01
Thank you to my guest, Jacqueline Brown. Jacqueline, I have really loved talking with you today. Thank you so much. Uh, I've had so much fun. It

spk_0:   32:09
was wonderful opportunity and, you know, it's really strange because there's not a lot going on in my life right now, you know, which is strange, because there was so much going on, and now it's like not a lot of things look forward to, but I really looked forward to this and just sharing about what I do and stepping out of my other roles for a minute. So thank you

spk_1:   32:29
in the telling, has some fun interviews coming up. I've spoken lately with comic book creators, a prolific screenwriter and an R D T choreographer. Be sure to subscribe, so you don't miss anything you can find out more about in the telling at Lizzie. Lizzie Liz dot com Check out in the telling Podcast channel on YouTube for bonus content. Theme music by Gordon Venus is telling, is hosted and produced by me was Christians and thanks for listening.