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In the Telling
In the Telling
Casting with Robert Andrus
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Robert Andrus of Jeff Johnson Casting
Robert teaches at SRS Performing Arts
Robert Milo Andrus as an actor on IMDB and represented by Broadway Film & Talent Management
Find out more about “In the Telling” at lizzylizzyliz.com
Theme music by Gordon Vetas
I've really been in the industry for forever. Um, I did all the , the drama classes in school, but I got to stage crew and I got to perform and man, the first time I heard the applause when I was performing, I was hooked. It was just a done deal. I didn't go to college. I went to the school of hard knocks. I worked several jobs at the same time in order to afford to do all of the artsy stuff that I wanted to do. Went to LA for four years, that's my college and then came back because I miss my family and I wanted to be around family. So that's why I'm back in Utah and working where I work and doing what I do.
Speaker 2The voice you just heard belongs to Robert Andrus.
Speaker 1Well, hello, my name is Robert Andrus as an actor. I go by my full name, Robert Milo Andrus. But yeah, my professional professional name is Robert Andrews and I am working in the casting office of Jeff Johnson casting and I've been there for close to eight years. I've been saying eight years and it's not quite yet.
Speaker 2Who gave me such great advice and encouragement about headshots , resumes, submissions, preliminary auditions and call backs that it made. The whole casting process sounded much more fun and creative. I'm your host Liz Christiansen and it's all in the telling. Welcome to episode 19 with my guest Robert Andrus. Not only is he a casting director, Robert has been auditioning professionally since he got his first agent in 1999.
Speaker 1Entertainment industry has been a love affair of mine since probably I knew what performing was. Is that hard to toggle or balance two separate careers even within the same industry being an Oh no, for sure, for sure. It's, it's almost a little bit schizophrenia in a sense because you really do have to have a different focus for everything that you do in the industry. And I learned from a very early age in the industry to um, try out all different aspects of being onset. And I'm going to talk mostly about TV and film because that's really where my passion lies. I did a stage play when I lived in LA and that was super fun, but prior to that it was just high school stuff, but doing production stuff like catering, you learn so much about the production is such a different perspective. Doing special effects makeup. I've done that before. Bruising and blood and all of that stuff. I've done editing, I've done grip, gaffer, DP, director. I've literally done almost everything you can do on a movie set to see what worked and also to find out that I have a huge respect for everybody else that does that proficiently and with excellence and with efficiency well, so it's definitely something that you need to have a very clear focus of depending on what role you're playing as a director, as an as a producer, as a casting person, as a writer as, yeah. What's your focus when you're acting? That's been an education that I've certainly never felt like I've achieved a mastery in because I think every experience is different. When I first started acting, I think my focus was very much about emotions. It was all about the emotions when I was younger, but really what it is now is it's just about telling the story of the actual person in that scene and I think there was a big misstep that I had in my earlier career missing that fact, and it's so important that you can actually dive into somebody's psyche and life and experience and still kind of live in their shoes and in their experiences and tell their story even though it can be completely fiction, completely fiction. Nonfiction is fun too. If you've ever had the opportunity to play somebody real, it's an experience when you lose yourself into the idea of what the character's story and purpose and life is.
Speaker 2Do you feel like you have to have the same grasp of a character when you're casting someone to be that character
Speaker 1in the casting room? That's a totally different thing because really what our purpose is as as a casting entity is to find the right person for the right role, for the right project, and it's very much a creative process. It's not just, Oh, bring in my friend and see if my friend fits that mold, which it certainly can be if your friend fits the mold. But really what it is is trying to find as many options as we can that actually fit the idea of what the story is that could fit within the world that the writer and production and the and the director are trying to achieve. Sometimes we have no idea what that is. Sometimes we have a very clear idea of what that is from, from the communication that we have with the production.
Speaker 2I liked that you said you're looking for as many options as you can find. Cause I think a lot of performers think they're looking for the one right person. [inaudible]
Speaker 1well, and here's the thing about the one right person. If you're directing a movie and I'm directing a movie, our version of the one right person are very different and it's a collaboration. It really is a team effort every single time. So as far as finding somebody for the casting process, you may not be the right person for it, although you could be the right person for it. So we really want to , you know, weed out the people that don't fit that time, but certainly present the people that do fit for that time and that space in that moment. Yeah .
Speaker 2What kind of information are you looking for from a production
Speaker 1that will give you the best information for finding the best options? Well, for me, the more specific you can be, the more refined I can be with the search. Right. So if you know for a fact that you need , uh , X, Y, and Z as a stipulation for that role, well then great. That takes away a lot of the second guessing that I have. Well, okay. What's the age range? Well, they told me exactly what the age ranges. What's the ethnicity? Well, they told me exactly what the ethnicity is. Okay. Are they supposed to be educated or not? Are they supposed to be a mom or not? You know, et cetera, et cetera. The more clearly defined , um, the production is with those specifics, the easier it is I can say with, okay out of the people that have submitted that have heard about this project, I can say that this person fits, this person fits, this person fits and the restaurant great. I'm going to invite them in to see which one the director and producers and everybody else thinks fit. And it may be the fact that you have a terrible audition that day that doesn't get you the job. Or it could be that you had the exact rate look and your audition was terrible and you still get the job. One thing that I really like that I saw during an interview was there a particular actor for a particular series that was really famous that went along for, I mean the series had a run of seven years, very successful. The actor's audition was not what they were looking for. Every single time he auditioned, he still ended up with a role that they wanted him to play because he fit the mold so perfectly as a human being with the essence of whoever this character is. And I'm not going to name names because I'm not going to, but the fact is they had a feeling that he was right for it and they read them. They didn't necessarily like what the job, the job that he did, they read them again, didn't necessarily like it, read them again, didn't necessarily like it ended up with a job and I'm not going to say that his audition was terrible ever. It's just, it didn't fit the mold of what they were looking for and he's still got the job, but everybody else has to fit the mold. Right. As a casting director, if you see a production go to looking at somebody that you're like, that's not at all. No , because it's actually happened in our office. We've invited people back multiple times. We just did that with the commercial and you know, they just weren't sure that this person fit the idea of what they were trying to, to accomplish. Ultimately that person got the job and they did a fine job and they did exactly what they needed. So it could just be that , um , there were too many people making a decision or more accurately not making a decision that , that matched everybody else's. So if you're looking at a bigger production, there's maybe 40 people that have a say in who gets cast. So 40 people have to like you versus, well, I'm an independent director, writer, producer, doing my own thing and it's just me. Oh, I can make a decision or I can't , maybe I need help from family members of else . But you know, a huge entity that has 40 people involved versus a smaller production that has three or four decisions are going to change.
Speaker 2That makes me feel a lot better about why sometimes there's like so many callbacks , right ?
Speaker 1And it could just be that they need to reinforce an idea that I really need to sell you to the producer or I really need to sell you to the director as far as you fit, but we're just not there yet. How do we make sure that we get you there? Well, let's give you more information. Let's adjust you. Let's see if you can take an adjustment. Sometimes it's just a matter of being willing to play. It's a creative process. There's never one real true way to do anything if it's a creative process.
Speaker 2Oh, I want to ask you about that so much because if you Google or Pinterest search or spend 10 minutes talking to an actor, there's going to be like, you have to do this with your head shot .
Speaker 1Sure, sure. There there's certainly guidelines and rules in place for, for consistency and for process and on the business side of it, it's still a business. You still need structure, but as far as the idea that you come in and we also invite a man to come in for the same role, that could be gender neutral. Who knows what it is? Valet, let's say that's an easy one that people can identify with. Well, it's a valet. It's just one-liner or it's just one moment in time. It could be male , it could be feel. Now it can be anybody. Well, how do you engage with the other person in the scene? Is it supposed to be a flirtation? Is it supposed to be a sense of urgency as you know, do you have to leave right away or is that moment where you're just taking too long and maybe you're missing something and you know something is going on in the scene that we need to get all of these people in to read for because there's a different interpretation for every different individual that auditions. I wonder if those are harder to cast. The ones that are generic typically are more difficult to cast because the more specific you are, well obviously they give us that information and we found people that fit that mold. Here you go, but with the ones that the age range is wide open, the ethnicities wide open, the genders wide open, it can be anybody from any walk of life. Those ones are tough because then we're just like, here's options. We don't know if we're hitting the Mark. You need to tell us. Ultimately that ends up being a process of elimination. Well , these people don't fit, but these ones do. Oh, okay. We get it. We know what you're looking for. Are you looking for super attractive? Are you looking for somebody that's super quirky and those words are subjective to beauty to you is different than beauty than me. Quirky to you is different than [inaudible] , so it's just a matter of kind of feeling out what terminology we need to use for any specific casting session or project or whatever we're done .
Speaker 2Is the production coming to a casting director then because they're just too busy to deal with the casting side?
Speaker 1There's a lot of reasons people choose to use a casting director versus not financial. Certainly one of them. If the production has a budget to allow for casting, then typically they do. You can typically cast a wider net using a casting director because I think one of the biggest misconceptions about casting is is what its purpose is. I think a lot of it has to do with relationship building over whatever, whatever course of time that that casting director has been in business and a lot of times through our office relationships are really why people come back to us to work relationships with the production entities, with production, with agencies, with actors individually. It's a relationship thing, but it's also a creative process. So sometimes when we don't have a relationship built already, we cast a wider net and then we would draw in from all over the country. All over the world. You're matchmaking. Yeah. Productions with people. Yeah.
Speaker 2Tell me some of the things that are like, I feel like submitted auditions are different now that that's changed.
Speaker 1They are, they are. And , and you know, I really wasn't part of the game when, if any actor remembers what a traditional casting session was like in the, anything prior to the early two thousands. It's a totally different game than what it used to be. There was nothing called a self-tape audition, although that's not entirely true because I remember the splicing together, VHS tapes for a friend that we would send a video audition to LA when she actually was living here. So technically there was something, but it wasn't popular and it certainly wasn't something that was done , um, on a regular basis. But there's standards for headshots and submission protocols and do's and don'ts. When you enter the room and even meeting a casting director, there's this huge, there's this huge misconception. Don't look at them in the eye, don't shake their hand, don't do this, don't do that. There's so many rules that are dumped when technically we're all humans and we're all trying to facilitate some sort of human experience. So it's okay to look us in the eye. It's okay to shake our hands if we offer it. Certainly not during flu season, please don't do that. But it's also a mutual respect , uh, scenario too . Whereas if you show up on time and you're professional every time, we're going to trust you a lot more than the people that show up habitual in the late or don't have the materials that they need to do the audition. And even the submission protocols have changed drastically. They're different depending on who you talk to and who's running that casting session. There's a lot more personal touches that are seen now than what we're seeing back in the day. Cause I remember, wow, if, if you didn't have a hard copy of your headshot and resume when you walk into the office or even submit, you're not going to be seen. And now there's ways around that because we have digital files. So here's my submission. Oh , we still need a hard copy while I don't have a hard copy, here's my submission. Right? So it just depends on what the production needs and there's a lot of variables as far as what you can do and what you can't do. Are you getting submission instructions from a production or is that all you get to determine in your taste ? Uh , well that just, again, that's part of the creative process. Sometimes we'll need pictures of your hands because part of what you're doing for a commercial requires you to use your hands a lot to show off this machine that is doing whatever function it does, right? So if you think of the Vanna white version of what you're doing for all of you that are listening, going, what is he saying? So you're presenting something with your hands. Technically they could use a hand model, but maybe they also want the person holding the product to be speaking to the camera as they're holding the product. So we need pictures of your hands to make sure that they fit the aesthetic that they're trying to, to give with the product presentation, if that makes any sense. So it's kind of determined by the project, but ultimately you're the one figuring it out. And a lot of times we'll get very specific notes from directors and producers as far as what they'd like to see in an audition. But as far as facilitating the audition itself, that's kind of up to us to figure out and to facilitate. What's the most bizarre thing you've had a director come to you with saying, this is something I want to see? Oh, that's a good question. I have no idea how to answer that right now. We do a lot of things with kids that are just fun. We do a lot of imagination type things with kids that can turn into bizarre pretty quick because kids are so unique and creative thinkers. Well, okay. Poopourri comes to mind. It's a product that you spray in the toilet before you go to the bathroom to prevent smells as part of the audition process. A lot of that is reactionary to sounds that I make on the side of the camera, so I'm making all of these toilet sounds, [inaudible] toilet humor sounds. While people are reacting to the idea that they're having some aggressive movements, mints , I'm trying to think of the most polite way to say this, but yeah, basically I'm making a lot of sound effects and they're reacting to those sound effects and that can be a lot of fun and it can be really awkward for some people so that that one stands out. Re like , do you do submissions now as a matter of course or do you sometimes still start with like a live audition? We pretty much do a live audition every time we allow people to send in self-tapes but our , our submission process starts with the breakdown going out to the agents and sometimes to to the Utah actors network or to the LA casting networks or to the national networks. Just depends on what the scale of the project is, but we always, we mostly offer submissions to the agencies. They make their, their selections on who fits the breakdown within their agency and then they submit those people to us. We go through and we decide. We agree. We don't agree. We agree. We don't agree based on either their picture or their resume or any other number of determining factors given to us by the production. Sometimes it is just the, the picture and the resume. Certainly demo reels are relevant. Now. If we watched everybody's demo reel for every single submission, we would be wasting a lot of time. So we don't do that on everything. But certainly a relevant picture for the role you're auditioning for is a really good way to get into the door, followed up by a resume with experience. If you're an independent actor and we open up the submission process to you as somebody that is not represented by an agency, then it's still the same selection process. Do you fit the mold of what we need? If so, we'll invite you in. You can either , um , do a video audition or come in live. Typically we schedule people to come in, live on a very tight schedule, which if you can't make it, then if we invite you to audition, then you can send us a video tape. But we also have a quick turnaround these days that did not exist back in the 1990s where our clients really want information right away. So we have to be very selective as far as who we're offering the audition to , to then present to the client as far as the final final choices that we're pitching. Because you need that time. We do, we do. And a lot of people think that it's just like, Oh, you come in for an audition. No, there's a lot of paperwork that goes along with that . There's a lot of decisions that are made throughout that entire process. Certainly. Uh, if, if we have a casting session that we're doing for a movie, how many people were casting for that movie? Could be one person, two 45, depending on the scale of the movie. So if we have one person that we're casting for a , certainly we can cast a wider net on who we want to see. If we're casting 45 roles and we have two days to do it, we're seeing maybe three people per role because that's all the time that we have to do it. Right. You're reading those and we're weeding those people out based on every qualifying factor that we can do. Now, of course, that's unlikely that we would cast something for 45 people in two days. Typically we have submissions where we're saying up to 50 people per role , and that's a lot, right? Depending on what the project is, sometimes we have three people that we can submit. Sometimes we have 10 people that we can spend. It's such a variable. There's no one right way to do a casting session, but that's certainly something that that we take very seriously for our client's sake. We're always championing the people that come into our office. That's something that's a big misconception. Or like we invite you to our office to hate you. That's not accurate. We invite you to our office because we feel like you have the chance to get the job and it's up to you to show us that you've made a lot of really intelligent decisions on how to get that job so that we , it makes our job really easy to pitch you right. But certainly nerves hit and that's an easy eliminating factor for us. If you, if you , your nerves got the best of you that day and the rest of the people didn't have that issue, that's an easy eliminating factor. Professionalism is eliminating factor. If you're a jerk to me, you still might go on to the production, but I'm may let them know about it. So it just, it just depends on what the scenario is. But ultimately it's a creative process. You may not have read the best material that day, but yo look and feel so much like the character. There's no choice but to send you, cause we have to, they need to consider that it's about our client. And when you say they're feeling like the characters that a vibe that you're getting outside of their poor performance because of the way they walk into the room, make sure any number of things, any number of things. Now granted that doesn't happen a lot where we're going to ignore a performance that wasn't very good. Typically we might have them read it again to give them another opportunity that some people just have bad enough days that they're just not going to get to the point where we're like, yeah, we that's, that's the thing. But then we say, well, consider them because them as a human being in the essence that they have fenced so well, their performance today wasn't great, but they could be there. It's up to you as the director, the production to decide if they fit right . Take that. Yeah , so even if you do it horrible read as an actor, that doesn't necessarily eliminate you. That's very comforting, isn't it though? I think most actors don't feel that that is true on any level. No. They feel like a complete failure if they, if they know in their bones that , that it just didn't go well. But there's a reason we invited you in. The reason we invite you in could be the reason that you're going on. You never know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It feels good, huh? Tell me the things that you love actors doing as part of their headshot submission. Resume. Live. Audition. Like the positive dues. Okay. The positive dues. Follow the guidelines listed. Basically follow the rules for, there's a very specific reason that we're asking you to do what we're asking you to do. So for instance, if we tell you that if it's okay for you to send in a self-tape audition and we want you to say your name and we want to you to say your age, if you're under 18 and we want you to go right into the scene from that point, and then you give us a history of why you're doing the audition, that doesn't make any sense. We're asking you for very specific things so that we can send that to the directors and producers and the productions that we're working for and keep everything kind of consistent and fluid and moving. So it's almost the idea of if you're coming into the live audition and you're telling me everything about your grandpa and how amazing he is and how you feel connected to your grandpa because it's relevant to the story that you're reading for. Great, wonderful. I didn't need to waste 15 minutes of everybody's time outside waiting for that story versus just getting right into it and doing your job. I love your grandpa stories, but tell me through the story in the process and timeframe that we have to get right to it. Follow the rules. That's the best way to keep us happy . Headshots , if you're bringing in a physical copy of your headshot, have it stapled to your resume where we can see your picture on one side and your resume on the other people still sometimes just staple them as if you're turning pages in a book. We want it on the back and on the front so we can just turn it around and get a quick reference. They should still be eight by 10, not a paper printed and your printer should still be a photograph and it should still be stabled all four corners because what happens if it gets separated from the picture, the resume, I don't know who you are, I don't know what you've done for staples is secure. Um, but that's kinda going by the way, the dinosaur too . Yeah, it is. It is. Um , everything's going so digital right now that will still ask actors to bring in their headshot and resume , uh , for callbacks. But in our office we've pretty much eliminated the first round of head shots and resumes because it's all digital. You're getting them in an email or getting them or , or directly from, from the actor as a submission. So it's kind of a new, interesting, fun experience to see what will happen next on the digital front. Because pretty soon you can probably just do everything with one click of a button. Here's everything. Well, okay, great. Don't be a jerk. That's a big one. That's more of a, don't, don't be a jerk, but it's an important dope. But it's an important, yeah, it's an important down and basically what that means is we have a job to do. You have a job to do. Don't give us a hard time for helping you with your job. Right. A lot of times , um, some actors can come in either having a bad day or, or having a bad experience at a previous audition, whether it's for our agency or our office or , or somebody else's office or a bad experience at an agency doing their audition process. You know, we're, we're just humans and we still have our human issues. Don't be a jerk to anybody that includes your fellow actor in the audition room , uh, in the holding room rather. I think that that's a good one. Just the golden rule. Just be a nice person. What about on resumes? On resumes, there's so many versions of what the right resume should look like. Ultimately, if there's different sections for different categories and it's all clean and it has your agency's information on it, or if it has your email on it, if you're independent, we don't need like your home address please. That just opens up an uncomfortable can . Like, here's all of my personal information. Well, why do you want anybody to have all of your personal information on your resume? All we really need is a line of communication. If that's a phone number, that's okay. If it's an email that's better agency's information's critical to have on there so we know how to contact you. Ultimately, there's something that's been said about having something funny on there to be engaging. Well, if that's your sense of humor, great, but if that's not your sense of humor, don't do it because it won't . They won't sell. Um, experience acting classes. All of those things on there are very beneficial because we can tell right away if you've done a pile of Shakespeare in your past, you're probably a pretty well-educated actor and that has some influence on whether or not we believe what's going on in your audition, which is why you are there. So everything's kind of all tied together. Ultimately as far as what you present to us and how we then can process all of that to make an educated decision for our client. Talk to me about the difference between the first audition, the first live audition, the first self, submit a tape, whatever. If I'm doing the same content on a callback , are you hoping it's the same? Are you hoping it's different? What? What do you want? Oh, okay. So the difference between a preliminary audition and a callback audition, should you as an actor do the exact same thing? I think that there's a reason you got a call back, right? But I think you should also be open to the moment, open to an adjustment, open to direction. I think you should go in with a more refined idea of what you originally presented because that's your job as an actor. Show us the idea of what it is that, that makes this character come to life. Right? So for your first audition, maybe you only had a few hours of prep to go in for it, but there's a reason you came back. Well, don't just live on that few hours of prep, refined what that is and show us a more complete version of who that is. I think that that's a really smart way to approach callbacks. What about , um , being WordPerfect in your memorization and holding, holding the sides or not holding the sides? Well, good grief. Memorization I think is super beneficial for freedom in the audition because if you're stuck in your , uh , pages , uh, how, how free can you be? Right? There's never in our office a requirement to be memorized and on sag productions being memorized puts it in a totally different category. Um, in the sense of if, if you're required to be memorized, there's other technicalities and maybe you need to get paid for that audition because then they're requiring certain elements and if you need to look up the sag requirements, Protestants go to their website, everything's there. I'm not this ag place for memorization sake. I think that it's good practice to be memorized, but a lot of people put way too much stock in the memorization and they don't put enough stock into the character, the person, the story, the experience live being in the moment. So sometimes the memorization is a little bit of a negative because they're not free to do all of those other things that I think are more important. Having your pages in your hand is a, okay, it's an audition. It is not a production. It's an audition. Have your pages in your hand, that's fine. Always have them with you cause you never know if you're going to have a human moment and blink out, give him , give me the quick pitch why an actor should even go to classes if it's about their look or their vibe or whatever. Um, it's about refining a , it really truly is , uh , you can be the most experienced actor on the planet and still not understand a moment. And I think that exercise is important in any art form. I heard this once and I, I've really latched onto the, the concept practice does not make perfect practice makes better and it's an art form and there's no such thing as perfection in art form. So I think practice is necessary to keep yourself mobile, keep yourself flexible, keep yourself moving along and you don't have to find a class that's super expensive. You don't have to find a class that's um, that's got a million people in it. You just need to find a class that you relate to so that they can challenge you and keep you moving. Because once you're stagnant and stale and statue, there's, there's no fun in , in movement. If you're a statue, what other kinds of called a moving picture? You know what I mean? It's not a statue picture. It's not a static picture. It's a motion picture. It's fluid.
Speaker 2What about people who show up for auditions just to practice? Audition? They have no intention of actually being a part of the project.
Speaker 1Um, that's kind of unfortunate on the business side of it because that just ultimately means that we were used and if they ended up turning down a job offer that makes us look bad. So , um, hopefully anybody that comes to an audition wants to ultimately do the audition. Um, I wouldn't say just do an audition for practice sake. I may have even said that in the past to somebody at some point, but I would say do the audition if you have any intention of follow through. That's, that's what I would say. Because ultimately it ends up being a large waste of time if you get an offer and then you don't commit to doing the job. I can't see that happening though. Right. Yeah. That's kind of a confusing one for me. A , why would you go to an audition just to practice but not accept an offer if they were to offer,
Speaker 2I've only ever encountered that in theater and I just, just wondering if there was a film corollary, but I think because maybe it's a business, people are a little bit more professional.
Speaker 1Maybe. Maybe. I'm sure I probably even said go do an audition to do an audition and get the experience, but it never occurred to me that somebody may not actually take that job . So that's an odd part . But yeah, I think, I think you do get a lot of experience out of going to an audition, so I think that there's value in that side of it. For sure.
Speaker 2Auditioning can feel like such a high stakes part of the process, but talking with Robert about how creative collaborative and fluid casting is reminded me how it's just like every other part of the storytelling process and just like every other part of the process. It can be fun. Robert's final advice for after submitting or going in for a casting
Speaker 1one . One really big thing is especially talking to an actor out there, don't beat yourself up for anything in the audition room. Take the experience for what it was. Take something really good about it that you can, that you can, okay, well at least I showed up. Even if that's what it is, at least you showed up then then take that as something to move forward to the next audition. A lot of people I feel maybe have put in a lot of time, effort, and energy into the process. They have a really bad experience and then I never see them again. Nerves are nerves. You never know when they're going to hit. I had a horrible audition several years ago and uh, it was for Jeff, and this was long before I worked for him. And he goes, Oh , how was that? And I said, I don't know. It was just a nerve. It was a nerve situation. And this was the next time that I went to the audition. So he goes, you know , I was wondering what happened that time? Oh yeah, apparently it just had nerves and I don't know what happened and I know that I did not get that no matter what, what happens there, I know that I failed big time, but what I took from that is why did I have those nerves and how can I prevent that from the next time for the next time? And I've never had a nerves issue like that since. So I certainly learned something from it and I certainly grew from that experience and I owned that experience. Everybody can have a bad day. You never know what's going to come from it. So if you happen to have a bad day , a bad audition on one unfortunate day, take the good that you can out of that moment and then just move forward and laugh about it later. It'll suck in the moment. I promise it will not be fun, but just move on. Just move on.
Speaker 2Check out the show notes for more information about the class as Robert Anders teaches at PSU row studios and for a link to Jeff Johnson casting. Thank you to my guest , Robert Andrus.
Speaker 1Thank you so much. Robert for the like interview you and come out to your office and everything. Yeah, it was fun to , good to see you. Yay.
Speaker 2And thank you for listening to this in the telling interview with Robert Andrus. You can find out more about in the tally@lizzielizzieliz.com theme music by Gordon Beatis and the telling is hosted and produced by me. Liz Christiansen have a great day.