Gig Insecurity with COVID-19

Guest Anthony Buck joined "In theTelling" for a discussion on how social distancing and Coronavirus is impacting work, gigs, side hustles and hobbies in Utah arts. We share what we personally are doing and not doing as a result of COVID-19 and talk philosophically and practically about financial, emotional, mental, physical and career implications and adaptations.  We don't want to spread alarm any more than we want to spread the virus, and even though we both have a sense of stress, we remain optimistic.  I hope you'll listen to this discussion between two good friends who are both deeply involved in the local performing arts industries and feel a little of the social distance between us and the stress of uncertainty lessen.  The Show Notes blog post hosts tons of links and resources including and additional to those mentioned in the discussion.  Bonus content from the conversation with Anthony is available on the "In the Telling" YouTube channel.
Theme Music by Gordon Vetas.
Find out more about "In the Telling" at https://lizzylizzyliz.com

Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
and it means that many of us are gonna lose a lot of money. That's not cool. But what's more important money or the literal life of some of our older people in the community? We have to find the ways we can't replace a life. We can find the ways which we'll talk about here in a bit. I'm sure about how to help people economically through this. There are ways to do that, but we can't replace people.

spk_0:   0:24
The voice you just heard belongs to Anthony Buck, who happens to be a very good friend of mine. And it's someone who works a variety of gigs and has for many years as his primary method of employment and income. Anthony works in music and theatre and literature, and probably even more. It's hard to keep track, frankly, of all the things that Anthony does, And so this time, with the Corona virus and social distancing and cancelled work well, he was the first person I could think of that I wanted to talk to about how we're gonna handle this. He's articulate and interesting and insightful and fun to be around, and I knew he'd have an insider perspective. I'm your host, Lose Christiansen. And it's all in the telling Welcome to Episode 28 a discussion about all the effects and impacts of the Corona virus on the Utah arts and entertainment industries. In this episode, I sit down with Anthony Buff, Can we talk about what all this means? Talk to me about on a personal level in a specific level, like what this means for you.

spk_1:   1:32
You know, I teach at a community college and I teach at you, you and those two organizations. They're keeping instruction going. They just have to move it toe online forums. I teach private voice lessons, which is very difficult to do online, and also it's just one on one. So because that's not large group gatherings, there is some talk. We might just continue to hold those just as normal. But some of the other work that I dio is going to do assemblies in elementary schools. Well, that's cancelled right the heck out. And if I don't do those, then I don't get paid for them. Um, I also work for Utah festival opera and musical theater is Opera by Children Program, which is helping students prepare and create their own assemblies. That was iffy right now, because if things are going to recover shortly enough that we can go back in the schools and say Great, let's get you back on board with preparing these and you'll be able to do these before the end of the school year as we're talking right now, The beginning of the Corona Apocalypse Uh, school's a

spk_0:   2:44
nice match at the schools

spk_1:   2:47
are shut down for two weeks here. Time will tell if I write, or if I'm wrong, I don't think they'll be limited to that. I imagine that that's gonna get extended. But I I applaud a decisive but cautious approach in the beginning, where we say, Let's start with two weeks and then see what happens So the operas by Children program may come back. It also may not come back. I don't know. I, um, also working for well, until yesterday, was working for the Egyptian Theatre Park City's their youth theater program that's canceled for the rest of season.

spk_0:   3:27
Okay, so they're just not gonna Okay,

spk_1:   3:29
So the artistic director, who was wonderful said, I'm so upset about this. I've already done payroll through this time you'll get paid up through then. But after that, I'm sorry. Two jobs are just done for the for the air, one might be done. We're not sure a couple of others are sticking around, but under very modified circumstances.

spk_0:   3:51
I think that's really great that the Egyptian Theatre is paying for what work can be paid for. That has been done, even though the product, so to speak, is no longer happening.

spk_1:   4:01
Well, I mean, it's only through a couple weeks, right? The show is supposed to go up in May, so I'll miss Ah, the rest of March and Aunt April and some of May. So it certainly is a financial loss. There are people who are doing exactly what you're saying. Well, I had a light design gig for a concert that was going to go up in a couple of weeks. It's canceled, and the men who is coordinating it says this is done through a grant. I'm gonna talk with the with the the Grant ear's about how this works and see if we can get you all paid, because it's not your fault that this didn't happen. So one of the major answers to your question is I know that this will have a financial impact on me. The

spk_0:   4:46
other impact

spk_1:   4:47
that it has on me is a lot of uncertainty. I don't know what things are gonna come through, what things are gonna fall through. And I think that that's where many of us are. We know that certain things are gonna happen. But then other things. It's like, I don't know. I don't know what to count off.

spk_0:   5:02
I don't want to minimize your level of discomfort with uncertainty, especially since, as a my level of discomfort with uncertainty is pretty. I It's like one of my least favorite things, right? I'd rather stare fear in the face than like this nebulous. I don't know what I'm dealing with kind of thing, but at the same time you're an artist who's been working in a gig based economy for a long time. So how much is this uncertainty, your old friend? And how much is it new

spk_1:   5:31
by old friend? You mean Old nemesis? It certainly is. It's familiar, but it is. It is difficult. So this is the last prawn of my how is this affecting the strategy, which is last night when I got home from my final day of teaching in person before everything shuts down. For a while, I had a level of anxiety that I have not had for quite some time. When I was doing my doctoral degree, I went through a period where things were very, very, very stressful for a lot of reasons. And I thought, This is a level of anxiety I don't recall ever having felt before in my life

spk_0:   6:17
is the wrong kind of leveling up,

spk_1:   6:19
right, right, right. And last night I was thinking, I remember you from one of the most challenging periods of my life. It does feel really, really unsettling as you as an artist, find sources of income and work that is gig based but tends to be recurring or somewhat steady. And you say, Great. I've built up something where if I can take on other gigs, that's great. I have to take on other gigs. But I have a core of things that I know I can count on. And when those core things start to be stripped away, then you're like, Oh, this'll was the stuff that was gonna prop me up if nothing else came through. And now not only is nothing that's gonna come through for a while, but also the you know, the foundation is starting Thio runaway also. So I applied for a job through like, this is on your outline of things to talk about. I applied for a census job today our yesterday, and they hired me like today already. Great. That doesn't start till May. But, you know, there are other ways to go out and start trying to make money. To replace this stuff is not fun. You'd rather be doing the things that you love to do. But there are ways for us to go out and make money.

spk_0:   7:41
I feel like we should talk about some of that now because, I mean, that's kind of where we land. But before we do, I want to throw out some statistics stuff, because I did. I did a little research about this, not about the virus and all that, because I feel like we're actually doing a pretty decent job as a community educating ourselves and each other about what this is,

spk_1:   8:03
miss educating ourselves in each

spk_0:   8:04
other. You are doing a terrible job of visiting. But that is not something I feel like. I can correo into it, which is my favorite tax company. Actually, they do the turbo tax thing. They did a study in 2018 about how many people in the economy. We're gig workers, and it was just around 1/3. But they projected that by 2020 it would be 43% of the economy would be dicks. Which floors me because I'm used to being like a minority in the economy, right? Like nobody understands what it's like to be an independent contractor. You don't feel how I feel. And I'm realizing now that I don't have that making me hipster cool in my financial suffering. So but that's a decent amount of people on, um, a lot of those people are obviously gonna be an arts and entertainment industries. So I'm thinking that a lot of people are in the boat that you and I are in right now. One of the things I found that I really thought was interesting was this book called The Gig Economy. The Complete Guide to Getting Better Work, taking two more time off and financing the life you want. And I'm not saying that everything in there is stuff that you should do and believe in whatever. But the book was interesting, and one of the things I wantto pull out of that is the idea that the author had Diane Mulcahy. If I say her name correctly, I hope that you need to create a financial flexibility and look at your monthly capital on revenue statements to determine if they're profitable or not, which was like, I'm not not lots of budget words, which I get but I don't love. So I wantto want articulate it in like Liz speak, which is Look at where your money is coming from. Figure out if your income streams are flexible in ways that help you, and not just ways that are inconvenient or uncertain. Okay, Do you feel like when you're talking about those core things and the side stuff Do you feel like in this diagnostic financial moment that you're kind of flexible? Are you feeling like Oh, no, I gotta diversify my income portfolio.

spk_1:   10:11
Oh, that's ah, that's a really interesting question. So I mean, if I talk about a performance that canceled was canceled, it will be like, Duh. Of course, we all know that. But Utah Opera was supposed to open tonight of the barber of Seville, and I know the woman who's innocent. Rosina in it. This was gonna be a big deal for her. This is and now is cancelled. And that's like all the work she's doing right now,

spk_0:   10:38
right? Yeah, yeah, because,

spk_1:   10:39
I mean, that's a that's a full time gig for, ah, for sport. 45 weeks. That's all she's doing. And then I don't know what Utah Upper is going to do for these folks financially, but let's imagine that they don't pay her for it. That's all her eggs in one basket. For that time, however, she is also in an enviable position because she's able to say, I'm doing this in a level where I can say

spk_0:   11:09
I just have

spk_1:   11:09
one gig for the next five weeks and it's gonna pay me everything I need, not only for those five weeks, but for a certain amount of time thereafter. So that's an enviable position, right? But when it works, right, yes, So right now I'm in a different kind of position where I have maybe six things that I'm doing And they were all small revenue in streams. Ah, and so if two of them go, then I can say this is not good. However, I still have four other things that I'm working on. So I do have within this business a certain amount of revenue stream diversity. But as I'm always saying to people, Yeah, I'm always always working. Just need a lot more money, a little better. Eso We're all looking for that. We're all looking for gigs that paid better all the time. And so hopefully as the as the number of gigs that pay better increase, that we're still looking at having some sort of diversity of how the incomes coming in. So this meto who was seeing Rosina, I cannot imagine that that's the only gig that she has imagine. She teaches. Most singers also have some kind of church gig, which right now, unfortunately, also out, You know, I just saw a good baritone. I know who was like Well, you know, that was it. That was my fallback. My church gig. No, that's not happening either. I

spk_0:   12:50
don't know. This is kind of

spk_1:   12:51
rambling, but but the diversity of things we d'oh! I think in the past I was always told, Don't be too diverse because then people look at you and say, What are you? I don't know what you are, you

spk_0:   13:02
know, I can't categorize. I can't hire

spk_1:   13:04
you gotta focus on one thing. I see that there is some sort of sense in that. But at the same time, for those of us who aren't getting really high level gigs in one thing like, you know, Thio conjure a name that's been really important in this whole business. Tom Hanks. He's not diversifying, right? He's not saying

spk_0:   13:26
I really need

spk_1:   13:26
something besides film because the films that he makes give him so much money that he can say,

spk_0:   13:34
I don't need

spk_1:   13:34
anything else. But for many of us who are just trying to, you know, doggy paddle our way through this kind of life, I think it is a really great idea to say I do this, Do this, Do this, do this, do this. This one falls apart. This was still here.

spk_0:   13:48
Cool. That makes me feel a little better about that whole idea to of like, I'm not all in on this, which might make some people say that I'm not an expert or a professional, but I have options and I have a lot of skill sets in a lot of different places. Yeah, well, And you know, I've done so many

spk_1:   14:06
different kinds of things in the arts who would debate that That hasn't made me a better artist.

spk_0:   14:12
Oh, I wrote Preach, right. Like I think there's so much to learn. Hence the premise of this podcast interdisciplinary between the arts, the fine arts in the performing arts and all the different mediums. Yeah, but that's like a whole separate conversation. That's that's a soap box that I could stand on for days. This is the other takeaway for me from that book. This quote by Diane No, Katie, you need to understand your personal burn rate, which is about cash flow management. I tell students Imagine you had no revenue whatsoever. What would your expenses look like in that month than prepared by saving and considering expenses? And they feel like, Ouch, That hurts right now because it's too late in a lot of ways, right? Like you should. You can figure out your burn rate right now. The hard way, way seeing how much you're having to put on your credit card instead of saving everything like that. But I feel like if we don't talk about that kind of stuff, even even as we say, Oh, that was painful. Why you gotta, like, stick the salty knife into my room? We have to mention that, like, you know, it's important to know what you're expending and how much you can afford to not earn. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if it's

spk_1:   15:25
a healthy exercise or an unhealthy exercise, but all the time I'm walking around saying okay every month, make this room much from this this much from this this must from this. OK, And then, uh okay, so I'll need something that's like this to fill in the gap.

spk_0:   15:38
I need a puzzle piece of income that is this size, rights month. These

spk_1:   15:43
air just principles of good budgeting all around right, knowing how much it cost you to live. So my father in law used to work for a construction company and when they would complete a big project. Since this was a family owned business, right, it's like, Oh, that's the influx of money right. And so then they're like, Now look how much we have in our bank, a bank account and we'll just spend, spend, spend Because here it is on Dhe. Then you go through a lean time, and it's like, Well, there's nothing coming in. So now we just keep on tightening up the belt. It's just not an efficient way to live

spk_0:   16:25
this super stressful to do. That's what you're going to reach the part. And I hate when we get to this where we talk about like, if there is a place to trim your budget, then you've got to do it. But because you hit the point where you can't trim anymore, it's a really thing, right? And at that point that when someone says, Well, look where you can cut back in your budget, I just want to throw a punch people, because they're that is not sustainable forever. Answer. You're gonna hit the wall where you can't cut anything else.

spk_1:   16:56
I have always been a minimalist, and so if I don't have to spend it, I just don't. That means that from time to time, I end up with money in the savings account and That's great, because then you need it later. All right? Always. Yeah. When you need it, you can fall back and say, Look, this is what I have now to get through until something else comes in. The problem, of course, is when you go through a long enough period where you're not replenishing the savings. Hello. That's unfortunately right now, huh? What? What kind of resource is I saw this also on your outline. What kind of resource is do we have them When we get to that point where we're like I tried to be his intelligence, I could. Now, here I am with a completely unexpected lack of income. Where do I turn? What am I gonna turn to? So I saw you had listed on there that we could talk to unions that were involved.

spk_0:   17:59
Although some people can talk to unions, you've got to be a member of the Union

spk_1:   18:04
also. Right now, in this particular moment, we are seeing a lot of action on the federal level and some also on the state level to say this is gonna be a major burden on people. What can be done to reach out and help people who are in this position. So we're gonna have to keep our eyes open. And for many of us who are not good at asking for help, we're just gonna have to say yeah time. Yup. I need the help. Uh, school is cancelled right now. We don't make a lot of money, so we qualify for free lunch at school. They're keeping that open. So every day, we're gonna do the take our family walk, which we could perceive is the walk of shame over to the school to get

spk_0:   18:46
You could say this is our exercise and family bonding time in nature.

spk_1:   18:50
And that's of course, how we're gonna try toe, pose it to our kids. Hey, look, we're just out doing this thing. There's still lunch at the school. Let's go do it. Yeah, if it's, ah, the difference between saying where two proud we're not gonna take it or saying, Well, we'll eat now and then see what happens later. We're gonna take advantage of what's there, and this is this goes back to the first point about what it is to be a community. These things were offered as part of the community. We're part of the community. So we're gonna

spk_0:   19:21
take it and then and it's offered because on a social level, we understand the composition of our economy doesn't make food security possible for everyone right all the time,

spk_1:   19:34
right? We don't tend to think of people who have gone to university for a long time and educated out doing this kind of work as being the people who might suffer from food insecurity. We tend to think of the less educated or people who work in more blue collar sorts of jobs or whatever kind of things like that. That's just that's just a misconception, right? It strikes people all over, so that was hard for me to come to grips with. After I got a master's degree, I was like, I got a master's degree Everyone said I'd have a great job. That's not only is that not true for people in the arts, but that is true for many people all over who get education and then jobs were just tough. The economy doesn't work for everyone, we said, trying to keep away from politics, Um, but But it just really is true. It doesn't mean that people are are lazy on educated, without skill or talent. It just means that where we are in society just doesn't work for every person. We gotta reach out and help each other.

spk_0:   20:36
What do we do to help each other out?

spk_1:   20:38
So we're all completely a lock down isolation, completely quarantine from each other,

spk_0:   20:45
except for the fact that you're in my studio right now.

spk_1:   20:47
That's exactly the point. Right now, we're not. We're not completely isolated. We can get together, actually talk in person. But beyond that, we've never been in a time where we have more ability to reach out to each other in so many ways. So, uh, you know, we should be getting together as individuals, especially now that so many of us are calendars. Air

spk_0:   21:08
completely clear for a while that I'm saying, I can't. I have rehearsal. I can't have a show. I have some time.

spk_1:   21:20
But I've seen a lot of folks saying, Hey, let's

spk_0:   21:24
just, uh, let's just record some songs and send him to

spk_1:   21:27
each other just for fun. I guess this is partially about morale, but but partially about keeping your business going at the same time. So Carl, Bextra and whom you interviewed a while back, who is a Children's book author and publisher. I reached out to him on Facebook because he's looking for beta readers and said, I'd love to do so. I listen to the podcast on a Liz. I love to do some beta reading for you. Would you do some for me? So we've been trading books for the last little bit and trading some feedback. So we're doing that right now when we can't be out and doing things. There's a conductor that I Brady Alred that we worked with together, Um, he started a conversation with me about a project that he wants to get going in, some in probably next year, and then also said,

spk_0:   22:13
and I also referred you to

spk_1:   22:14
this guy in I think it's in Singapore. I think I was looking to do this thing. It needs a stage director like, uh, well, thank you. I'm glad my passports up to date. Not for the next few weeks, of course, but we're doing the networking now that perhaps we didn't have time to do before because we're like running from thing to think. It's like, well, what kind of you doing? Oh, yeah, building up a future of which we always were trying to do. But sometimes it gets left in the dust of everything we're trying to do in the moment.

spk_0:   22:46
Yeah, I want to talk to you about building up a future because I feel like there are a few things there. I really want to make sure we talk about So you've got some social distance and you've got your corn team thing going on. How can you do things right now that help your career long term? Let's kind of like sidetrack the financial things like helping your finances right now and do as a separate conversation. So the things that you could do right now and and one of them you're talking about is, like this sort of tell a networking and collaborating over distance, which all of us do this to some level. I don't know how much we need to talk about what that looks like, because it's just a natural part of our business that we don't typically have run for. So when I got home

spk_1:   23:27
last night and I told you I was having this level of anxiety about what was going on. I thought maybe I should get to work on some things and I thought, No, no, you know what you need right now? You need to just take a breath. So we got some things done with the kids. We put him to bed and desert and I watched a couple episodes of the marvellous Mrs Mazel which business? Areas that were living right now. So this was two things for me. One is just take a breath. This does seem really overwhelming. It seems like it's the end of the world, however, will look back at this, I feel confident in 2 to 4 weeks and say, while we were all really freaked out and look, things are better. I have no doubt that things are gonna get better after this. But right now we need just thio, calm ourselves down and say it's okay to be freaked out. Maybe I'll just take a little bit of time off for a little bit

spk_0:   24:24
and then get

spk_1:   24:25
back to doing something washing. Marvellous. Mrs. Mazel does two things. It helps calm me down. But then also, I'm thinking about all the writing in it. The whole time Dang, This is great writing

spk_0:   24:33
on as that being one of the things that you do. I love it. I love working in the arts when your relax ation or your recreation or you're recreating of things or whatever, it cannot happen at the same time. Yes, it's research, but it's like, But I'm not trying to research like that. Sometimes there's the research you have to do, uh, riding a historical fiction. And so I need to like on. Then there's the research work, just like I am totally engaged as an audience person with this movie. But I am also engaged with this movie on a deeply exciting and adrenaline inducing level that is, super academics, like a crafty or nerdy and behind the scenes. Yeah, for sure. It is

spk_1:   25:17
exciting to have work like that. You know, when I listen to great singing or I watch a really well staged thing, well directed or well written. Ah sort of thing. Beautifully illustrated thing. I think not only does this educate me, but it also just enriches my life.

spk_0:   25:38
Yes, loving it on lots of levels.

spk_1:   25:40
I guess that's about about how we can start to broaden horizons you know, you're doing this podcast all the time, Which is I wanna learn. I wanna learn about a new things. So let me ask you then. What kinds of things are you looking ahead to in the next few weeks to say I'm a read up on this. I'm a watch. A Brazilian YouTube videos about this. What are you gonna be learning?

spk_0:   26:02
I have to go before I answer that question back. You up to how I love that you know me, This well that you said read and YouTube because I love to learn all the time. And I don't love to pay money for all of my learning, so I decided, Okay, if I'm gonna spend this amount of money, you're x amount of money I'm not gonna spend. Why amount of money and get that? And I go to YouTube and I got a Pinterest and I go to books, and I don't I don't think there is a single arts and entertainment or storytelling industry where you can't find quality educational opportunities on YouTube for free. You're gonna find the garbage ones, too. But I think we're all well practised at watching screens. Enough to recognize what is wasting our time really quickly, and then we just click elsewhere. There's some good things on Pinterest, mostly as a catalogue of how to find them, where they exist elsewhere on the Web. I think whether that's articles, blog's or, you know, for me, Pinterest is a curating place rather than a primary sources place for that kind of information. But I really love that. And whether you're reading fiction or nonfiction, I I don't think reading is ever wasted right. It's just it is just a skill building thing, regardless of your craft. So, um, I've got this Kurt Vonnegut but called Pity the reader that I am chomping at the bit to read and it's gigantic, Um, but even the part of me that isn't writing actively is going to be devouring what he says about crafting stories for a re here. And I'm gonna be thinking about it, like for an audience. For someone who's watching for someone who's listening, crafting anything that is supposed to hold someone's attention on that, I'm gonna be trying to let cross that. So besides specifically that book, I'm really looking forward to spending a little bit more time on YouTube this year, diversifying the dance styles I used to choreograph with because because of the kind of choreography that I do, it's not really high, advanced deep expertise. I don't need expert dancers in any given genre. What I feel like I need for the choreography that I do is quick access on an amateur semi professional dancer level to all of the tools I can get my hands on. So all of the dancing genres and s so I've been taking a belly dance class. I'm really excited. Thio go into some Bollywood training and all the all the kind of like the basic stuff, because if I can't learn it within seconds, I can't teach it to people and expect them to learn it within seconds. And that's the kind of choreography that I need to pass on. I'm not trying to train people to be pros. I'm trying Thio give them moves that express something in a story that they can then learn fast so they can focus on expressing the story or the character. So, yeah, you two been are really good friends. When it comes to Lego, we'll learn some African beat today. Let's let's do some tribal stuff. A big fan of that. I also have this cue in my YouTube watch later stuff of like, how better to use audacity. How better to use my camera? How better to use Divinci Resolve, which is my program I use for editing, audio or video. So just like upping my usage of the tools, I already have access to a CZ. Well, I want to get better at that. So continue your education, huh? I have, in my notes this quote by Vincent Van Gogh because it makes me feel better about the fact that when I start doing something, I suck at it of he said, I am always doing what I cannot do yet in orderto learn how to do it. And then whenever I've got time, I think because I have hobby 80 HD or what I love finding a thing I can't do and start sucking at it so that I could get past the sucking period and start learning how to like, really, how to do it so that I can do it later.

spk_1:   29:54
This gets way into the philosophical of artistry beyond just the moment of What are we doing with our time? 19 right now. But this was one of the major themes of one of the episodes of the marvellous Mrs Mazel that we watched last night. So Midge Maisel gets up to do like her third set of Stand Up, and she just bombs horrendously bombs. And she goes over to her friend, who's managing her and says, That's it. I'm done. And the friends like Are you kidding me? No. You bombed that. Everybody bombs, everybody will bomb. And that is such a hard thing to come to terms with, um, after my first really bombed professional audition in New York, I just thought, That's it. I'm done. I'm done forever. No one will ever hear me again. What a great time right now to work through all those kinds of things and say, Well, just try something. It will be awful. No one can see me because we can't be in groups of 25 people or whatever

spk_0:   31:03
e combined this with that networking finger that tell a telling that working and just be like, all right, who's the person who will still answer my email if I send them my early attempted this.

spk_1:   31:17
So I have been. So maybe this will become so common knowledge in the next few weeks that no one will think that this was original at all. But I saw posted on the Facebooks mean about Isaac Newton. Have you seen this?

spk_0:   31:31
Probably because it sounds like

spk_1:   31:32
a familiar. So during 16 65 I think it was there was the plague made a slight, resurgent inland resurgence in London. It was called the Great Plague for their from 65 to 66 wiped out a whole bunch of people in London. They closed down Cambridge University, where unusual was working at the time. And so he went out into the country. And that time away, because of a big epidemic outbreak, was when he laid the foundations. Four the theory of gravity and developing calculus.

spk_0:   32:13
I actually specifically wanted, like, touch on that because because one of the things that if we could make some broad sweeping generalizations and not make anyone mad like artists tend to have anxiety artists and to have depression and or at least maybe we're more open. I'm talking about the fact that we have those things than other communities. But one of the things that people are kind of beginning to talk about is the worry that the like the loneliness and the isolation. But there is this fantastic word that is not loneliness, that solitude, and the idea that this is this is the way that the research I was looking at about creativity, defined solitude, a constructive, solitary state so that that place where who where you are. I don't want to be alone because it's too much like loneliness. But where you are removed from the distractions that hinder your creativity and your ability to think out of the box artistically or scientifically. I mean, there's so many fantastic way something creative. It'll creatively. That's what I'm looking for. I'll get there. I'm always saying words. I don't know how to say that I may learn how to say them. Thanks to keep your ears. I, uh I feel like already this morning, um, I had this moment where I I do this instagram poetry, and I don't do it because I think I'm good. I do it because it is a really good way to keep me writing. It's a low key low investment. I don't I don't really edit my poetry. I throw it up on Instagram where people aren't really expecting anything That isn't instant eso eso I have, like some level of accountability or like, you know, a reason toe actually sit down to do the writing. But I also don't have to spend any emotional investment or time on Did anyone read it and like it? Because it was just the thing I threw up there instantly. So I had some time in space. I had that like, creative solitude this morning, and I went back through this note taking app that I have and and looked at, like scraps of things that I had started and probably just gotten interrupted or like written to a place where was like, I don't know where that goes into stopped and there was, like, all those they're kind of terrible. But I'm at a place this morning where I can tinker with that and I like I feel ready and I have ideas. And maybe they won't be in anything other than marginally better than terrible. But I don't really care, because being in that creative solitude, space isn't just about products. For me, it's a therapeutic process, and it's a strengthening of the process so that when under a deadline or under a commission or some other thing like this process and I have a lot of experience and we get each other, get how each other works,

spk_1:   34:59
Yeah, you can re create for yourself the attitude of solitude that fosters your creative output. That's great. I know that feeling. And I of course I have music that I listen to that really helps to get me into that zone. When I hear that music, I know I don't look away. I'm focused, right? Thing is my focus Music s Oh, yeah, This might be a time to really help develop a strategy for How do I get there? How do I get myself right into that zone?

spk_0:   35:31
Even if you have like, this is my process and this of necessity, the circumstance, disruption process. Maybe it's an opportunity for you to experiment with working with a new process. I mean, that might be sucky and painful because

spk_1:   35:47
we suck it what we do

spk_0:   35:48
for the first time. But but maybe not having access to your regular collaborators or your regular work space. There's got to be a way to turn that around to an advantage. I think five completely agree. I'm going to go just bouncing through these bullet points and I have this. This note says, Just keep working. There's work you could do. That is not the work you're paid for. All of us that participate in these industries have that, um, but this quote by William Faulkner I really love Don't be a writer, be writing. So maybe your gig where you act on on stage right now is cancelled. Don't be all like I'm not an actor. Just act. And if that means getting one or two friends together to do seen readings and like workshopping your house if that means now I'm finally going to have those two monologues prepared and in my back pocket that I'm always supposed to have. So you film yourself doing a dramatic monologue and you send it to someone else for for review or whatever. It doesn't matter if you're in a show where you're acting over your backdoor, just act. I feel like of all of the industries that we might be talking to her people might be listening from that have it be their industry. This makes the most sense for writers and musicians because musicians realised they just have to practice all the time. And writers know, even if it's hard to muster that they should just be writing all the time. I would imagine fine artists and dryers, but like the performing arts people, too, there's there's one. There's a version of that application for everybody. One of the things I just wanted to throw out there as things get forward is especially for the filmmaker, people that are maybe listening to this expect that there is going to be some difficulty in getting fundraising going forward even as things start to recover because this is a financially risky time. And so risk averse people are going to be really tight with things. Capitals not gonna feel quite as much. So consider how you might if you're if you're feeling like my project. This summer is safe, though I just don't have the investment thing locked up yet may be considered like How might you go about getting funds differently or doing it with fewer funds or self funding or whatever? Because I just I think that that's the conversation. Maybe two or three months from now when everyone's looking for their investors and their investors were like, No, because March suck,

spk_1:   38:12
right? Yeah. We were just talking about this the other day. We were on the phone saying, Which arts organizations is this gonna tank? Yeah. And you know, we hope that that's none. I don't think it will be None. As we were just talking about, You know, the first thing I thought of when I when I heard that Utah was gonna have to cancel Barber of Seville, I thought those ticket revenues,

spk_0:   38:35
uh, that's important money.

spk_1:   38:37
What does that mean for next season? For them saying was with CenterPoint, they don't have a large payroll for that kind of thing. But no doubt they're counting on those two weeks of ticket revenues to get them through things. How are they going to accommodate the season ticket holders That missed out on those, uh, on those performances,

spk_0:   38:58
whether it's vouchers or refunds or there's that mean going around on Facebook, saying, could you just please consider donating the cost of your ticket to the canceled thing so that the institution can continue.

spk_1:   39:08
Sure, I hope a lot of people will do that because that is the That is the thing that really makes us into a community. And when when we recognize that people are more important than money, I know that seems like such an easy thing to be able to say that we should all just understand that that is true. But I think that we need a real refresher in what the meaning of that is. And hopefully this time can be a non opportunity for for many to recognize. I have work to do in making that the reality of my behavior. People really are more important than money.

spk_0:   39:45
Let's talk about immediate financial situation stuff for just a minute. I'm only gonna say this one more time that I'm moving on because I hate this advice. If you can tighten your budget, do if you can't don't want to throw a punch me for saying it's because I totally get that. There comes a point where you can't tighten it any further, calling credit card companies to see if they can lower your interest rate, especially before you really need to. But just they hate my gigs have been canceled. My my current employment income is different than was forecasted or projected. When whatever. Let's talk about lowering interest rates, you got time to be on the phone right now. Probably if they're still staffed, they'll answer. If you're making student loan payments, you can always call the company to find out how deferrals work before you need deferrals. That's kind of nice to have that information ahead of time. If you're a member of a union like the Screen Actors Guild er, actor's equity or it, um, I don't know what the ones are for the other industries, but your union will have plans and processes in place for this sort of thing. Talk to your union, UM, amp. Up Your teaching is one of the options you've talked about how yours works best in person, but ah, lot of us that participate in this also participate in it on a financial level in teaching it. And there's got to be creative ways through streaming ah group online classes. If that's what you're really interested in doing. If you're you know, a director and you want to and you never have the time and you hate doing this outside of it. You can ask people to send you 16 bars of an upbeat song and you'll give them feedback, hold mock auditions. You know, people always want if you pack on their auditions. And typically, the people who make those casting choices aren't always in a place to give that feedback. This might be that opportunity. I also think that some people are gonna get bored. So I was thinking today, like, huh? Maybe I'm just gonna choreograph some random stuff and throw some tutorials up on YouTube. That will give me something to look forward to. Um And then if anybody else wants to inform to that, too, that's something I could do. Also, if this is really a thing that's gonna be the financial straw that breaks the camel's back. Then you just talked to a bankruptcy lawyer. Some people wait again to talk to those people until they're right in the thick of it. And if you can have an understanding of it in advance a little bit, then that's a little less stressful. And if you're on the point of being evicted, or maybe that's even a conversation that could happen and talking to a bankruptcy lawyer before you are evicted about the possibility that you might be evicted. It's just a smart thing to D'oh.

spk_1:   42:07
So, um, my wife has worked in property management for a long time, and I can just attest to what you're talking about here. If you know you're gonna have financial issues, just talk to people in advance. It's way easier to say. Hey, look, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to pay rent on time this month. Can you help me rather than on the seventh? If you haven't paid any rent for to say when the landlord comes knocking, where's your rent and say,

spk_0:   42:39
Well, I kind of was

spk_1:   42:40
a little worried it wasn't gonna be able to pay.

spk_0:   42:43
Yeah. Why did you talk to me before?

spk_1:   42:45
You know, um, this also is really true with medical bills. Yeah, if you talk to people, even when you walk in the door and say I've got this problem, they can give you options right up front. So I think your advice to be preemptive about these financial things is great. There are people who are gonna just gonna save pay me the money or else you won't know until you ask if people are gonna be more flexible with you

spk_0:   43:15
and I'm on my instant. I hate uncertainty and fear. At least I'm identifying those people earlier. I'm giving myself time to come up with my counter response. Looking for trades of goods and service is especially if if we're talking about not like the bare necessities on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Like maybe I still want to continue receiving voice lessons or piano lessons, but I can't necessarily afford to pay for them. Is there something that I could teach this person, or can I baby sit or whatever, starting to work out that kind of bartering for the stuff that you want? I mean, hopefully, we don't get to the part where we're having to do this with toilet paper in hand, so waken practice those skills now things that are significantly more fun. There's a lot of things you can do to pick up temporary work. Ah, lot of the things that happened when people go into kind of like a quarantine situation is they order more food to be delivered to them, so service is like door dash get overwhelmed and they need more drivers in delivery people. So if you're looking for temp work, not like the census that's going to start, you know, in May. But, like right now, lift uber They might be struggling because they might not be taking people quite so many places, but people are gonna want stuff brought to them. Amazon needs drivers ride like that kind of stuff is going to be needed. You can get paid to take online's surveys. And if you're interested in which cos I'm gonna have all of these links in the show notes, you can, you know, decide to work for the census. You can sell stuff on Etsy's as your cafe press. A Zazzle shutter stock will sell your photos. You can listen to the music on, slice the pie and get paid for that, which is kind of fun. You can sell your time so you could do online transcription. Service is you can teach English online as long to have a bachelor's degree through V I. P. Kid. You could become a virtual assistant, and, um, I mean I For me, that sounds just awful. But if you have If you're a stage manager, maybe this is more your jam. You can look online for you. No jobs that you can do them anywhere, like remote. DOT CEO has a good site there. You contest websites and APS for people, and there's a whole bunch of links in the show notes for those you can sell your expertise on on a wide variety of websites. Just the things you know how to do, though, compensate you for the fact that you can answer people's questions and offer advice or right educational content. Maybe for your career. This is the moment where you're like, I think I'm gonna learn how to have a patriot on page. I think our industry is flooded or oversaturated with Kickstarter and go fund me type stuff, and I don't I personally, when I see things on go fund me that are not to the level of someone's life and death situations, I get ah, little like I don't really I think that that's the right way to go about this. I'd rather if I'm gonna put money into go fund me. I'd rather be saving someone like getting their life saving medical needs. Met because our health care system for all people, right, doesn't it doesn't mean everyone needs all the time, the way I would like it too. So I would say maybe be judicious at this time that we don't already exacerbate. What is an oversaturation of arts needs on Kickstarter and go fund me. But there are ways Thio get paid for the content that you create and the skills that you have through YouTube and patri on. And if you've never looked into that, maybe that is a good time to do that. But I want to end, especially on the social emotional advice. We've kind of been talking a little bit about that. But talk to me about your social person. Are you gonna be okay with one on one and small groups like, What's your plan? Do you have a platter? You just go wing it. You mentioned how it's spring, and then my brain, I I told myself two or three days ago, it's gonna be important for you, Liz, to remember that just because you can't go out doesn't mean you can't go out. You will need some shine. You will need exercise. My gym hasn't closed, and actually, I've part of me felt bad about how grateful I was that I could get parking so easily at my gym yesterday and the day before. But I just know that about myself. There is going to need to be a level of physical activity and vitamin D in my life that has nothing to do with whether or not I can see other people, or whether or not I have tickets to such and such thing. But I'll just have to do that. I need to be outside.

spk_1:   47:34
So we've told you. We went to a park with the kids with my two boys. Some people came over with their dog and they were throwing the ball to the dog. Then I thought, There, I'm not gonna approach these people. That's not the thing to do right now, but we we were watching them throw the ball in the dog of bring the ball back and my kids were having a great time. They loved watching the dog jump up and grab the ball out of the air and so we just stood there and laughed and enjoyed it, and I I knew that the people though they were standing quite a ways away, they could hear that we were enjoying it. In fact, the man who was throwing the ball started throwing it a shorter distance so that the dog would jump up and grab the ball directly in front of where my boys were so that they could watch it right. Okay, I don't know these people. I've never met him. I don't know that I would even be able to recognize him because they were standing on a ways off if I were to see them again. But I thought we we shared a social moment. I even though we were far away, where we kind of thanked each other for being there in a public space, and we didn't have to get right up next to each other, risk any sort of infection. It was really nice experience.

spk_0:   48:55
It's beautiful. The last thing I have in this social emotional advice is articulating yourself or just kind of a self awareness of like what? What are your support groups? What are your coping mechanisms, especially for those that struggle with long term or chronic or diagnosed mental illnesses? If you have sought therapy If you've received the kind of overt support for those sort of things, you probably have some idea of like what you need and then just making sure that you continue to fill those needs, even if it has to be in a slightly different way than normal. I feel a little bit a little bit like I have to perform or like I'm on in big groups. But I have really strong social needs. I just No, already, I don't need them to be filled by big groups. I am more authentically filling them. If it's a smaller group, I'm less of the performer and more just me and reminding myself that, like, Okay, you're still gonna want to invite people into your home because that is one of the ways and feed them here. You're gonna want to do this with food and in your home. So, um, you're just gonna need to say we're all well right now as far as we can tell and I've cleaned. And if you're feeling well and comfortable with that, come share a meal with us in our home. And if you wanna bring your own food like I could be overtly articulate about how to make that work for people. If it's gonna work for somebody else besides me and I think it's okay to say I'm gonna need that on, I'm gonna make a conscious effort to make sure that that happens. Maybe somebody support group doesn't meet right now. What other support group can you haven't drawn and like intentionally build it for yourself?

spk_1:   50:43
Yeah. Two things in in response to to Well, to support that one. Is that the support groups? As we said before, just because you can't meet in person does not mean that you cannot meet right now. It's just so easy to find all the ways to digitally connect. It is different, but we don't need Thio freak out and say, I'll never see people again. Not about the weather is long term or not. We can be in contact with people right now. Um, and the other one is that everyone knows that social media and online things can be a vortex of negativity, the amount of information that we consume and where it comes from. I think we just need to know when Thio cut ourselves off and say, Go home you're drunk.

spk_0:   51:33
I love that.

spk_1:   51:37
I could only read so many articles about things before. I just have to say, this does not help me. I must discipline myself right now to change activities. Yeah, especially when we're looking at a gaping hole of things on the calendar. If you're like me when you have a certain amount of time, that's down and you're like, Oh, but I don't even have anything that, like, has a deadline coming up, the temptation to just fill it with whatever. Yeah, well, I think we just need to be really aware and set boundaries for ourselves in advance and say, If I've been staring at a screen for this in the non productive way extending a screen for this long, I need to just cut myself off and say, Change activities, go do 20 jumping jacks and then realize, Oh, yes, there's a world outside of a screen. I didn't hopefully shuttle yourself to something else. I think that will be important to those of us who are feeling kind of isolated.

spk_0:   52:40
Anthony wasn't the only independent contractor storyteller that I chose to reach out to young Little author Candace J. Thomas was one of the first interviews I conducted on the in the telling podcast. And I loved talking to her. So of course I wanted to hear from an author's perspective how things were going for her and what her thoughts were, and she was kind enough to leave me a voice message on speak pipe. It's really kind of interesting because one of the things that really during this time you would think that people would want to read more, want to escape more from. And and this is just the beginning of, you know, this kind of too weak, a little little isolation. But I would think that people would want to slow down and read and have time. People say that they don't have time to read anyway. Well, now you d'oh! Now you've got some time to kind of slow down pace of life, and what I'm seeing is not many people are really interesting reading books there. Everyone's going to the Internet. Everyone's, you know, feasting on what you the media is throwing out or what Facebook is showing. Nobody's really getting books, so I had a book release on March 11th so this is kind of where we were kind of all gearing up for what's gonna happen up here, but but it shouldn't have been that that bad. My release was kind of dismal. I sent out a newsletter and not very many people opened it. I was even giving away books, and no one responded to this book. My friend had a free book on Saturday on the 14th and that was out of the response that we expected. We only got, like, maybe 1/3 off that an end of what we were expecting, and that was like, You know, it's a free book. You would think that people would really, you know, want to read this or want their teens reading this kind of stuff because there's an open space for it right now. So it's kind of, Ah, we're kind of in is weird place. I don't know what you know as well as we kind of slow down our pace of life. I don't I'm hoping that people would want to create more and want Thio read more books and I know a lot of my writer friends or taking the opportunity to finish projects that they haven't had a chance to d'oh, which is great. We're getting an opportunity to do that. I have a performer friend in Florida. Since they've closed, you know, all the parks there. She's getting a chance to really dive into her writing. So it's kind of justice is unique, special time where we get to slow down and look and evaluate what we can do creatively. What I would do is I would just encourage people to hopefully seek out the opportunity. They have to do something special and do something creative, regardless of whether what it is. Painting, writing, poetry, reading books. It's not a time to really panic about. This is more of a time of reflection, and I'm seeing, even though there's a social distancing that we can't really hugger hang out or whatever. But we also is bringing kind of a human community together, just a chance to experience a time together and see what we can dio as a community and what kind of service can come out of it and what kind of great writing can come out of it, too. So I'm hoping for me, I work in health care, so that doesn't my job doesn't stop but my writing With this time that I'm granted, I'm get Thio edit books. I get to read a little bit more and just kind of. I'm hoping to write a little bit more poetry and hopefully help expand myself socially to help include other people in the conversation that usually aren't around on on social media. So I'm hoping to use those kind of opportunities I'm gonna end with some things I'm looking forward to and feel free to jump in about anything you're looking forward to. So after we finished recording, Anthony's gonna teach me how to use my new Mac book because I've been a PC user and I can't even figure out how to scroll. That's the first thing E I can't figure out this girl down to accept the things so that I can finish downloading and installing Google chrome. I am so looking forward to the oh shoot. And And as Anthony teaches me how to use my Mac on trade and barter service is here, I'm gonna teach Anthony how to do Cem some things with audacity that I know. How do you do that? He doesn't know how to dio and that's gonna be really fun. I've got two paintings in my living room that I just started up after interviewing the local colors art gallery, folks, the abstract, acrylic and mixed media people. I was like, I'm just gonna try that I'm under no delusions that my stuff will be a cz good as the people who've been doing it. But I'm doing it for the fun of the way that they talked about, like interacting with the paint on this highly textured, not representational way. I was like, I want to engage with that medium that way, my under coats air dry. So tomorrow I'm gonna start painting on the paint, which is something I've never really done before. And I'm really excited to see what that means, Um, for me and to play with that. So those are the two things on my my cove it radar that thrilled about it. So,

spk_1:   58:03
um, the other day you mentioned to me a statement by Ray Bradbury. His advice was Write a short story every week. It's impossible to write 52 bad short stories in a row.

spk_0:   58:17
I love this quote with all my heart,

spk_1:   58:18
and I'm not yet point where I could write one a week. But I'm hoping to say, Look, I'll use this time to actually, So I've just completed a short story last week. Have you read it yet? By the

spk_0:   58:30
way, the one that you said music. Thanks. This is not a happy story. I'm looking forward to it.

spk_1:   58:36
Eso and I have another one that I just started some notes on yesterday, so hoping to get that done and see if I actually can work up to maybe one a week. I also have cash. It's all about literary stuff right now, But I have another Children's book that I'm writing and illustrating right now, and hopefully we'll be able to use this time to just dig in and get that Get that one working. There are also a few projects that I have out as a librettist out two composers right now. Maybe I'll just check in and say,

spk_0:   59:07
I'm gonna cough. Don't panic. E. Before

spk_1:   59:12
I came over, I coughed once and I don't know

spk_0:   59:16
what you are right back where you were, Please.

spk_1:   59:23
So I have a couple of projects that are out to composers right now. A couple librettos that, uh, that I will probably contact the composer and say, Hey, how's your Corona virus? Time going, Let's move forward. So the Met the Metropolitan Opera in New York is, of course, shut down. But they are going to do broadcasts of operas that they've filmed over like the last 10 years. On tonight for the whole next week

spk_0:   59:52
I'm gonna be watching a lot of TV, then

spk_1:   59:53
eso I'm hoping to do those. I was send some links out to some of my students that I know would enjoy that one of the composer's that I'm working with, who says I love to compose, but I'm not as familiar with the opera repertoire. I forwarded that onto her and was like, Let's do a watch, a fun, eh? So hopefully all that kind of stuff will go in that in that bucket of let's let's build ourselves, let's enrich ourselves with the material and also hopefully enrich the world without a material.

spk_0:   1:0:25
I like that. It should be a cyclical thing. Let's just let's just have a composition. It's a strange time and I personally feel both stressed and optimistic, and I think you can hear that both from Anthony and Candace that they do as well. It's an opportunity, sure, a stressful one. But we can fill this space and this stressful time with good creative things and creative ways of reaching out and connecting with each other. I'm not really sure how all this is going to go down, but I have a plan. I have some things I'm going to be able to do. And some people I'm going to be able to do those things with, if not in person at least over the technological tools that enable us to stay connected. And I'm not gonna worry too much about my solitude time. I think that could be an opportunity for me as well. Thank you to my guest, Anthony Buck. Thank you so much for coming up to hang out with me and thank you to Candace ST Thomas for calling in. You can find out more about the in the telling podcast on Lizzie Lizzie Liz dot com Theme music by courting vetoes in the telling is hosted and produced by me. Liz. Christians in thanks for listening. I hope you're well and I hope you have an enjoyable day