Vickie Panek of Talent Management Group

Guest Vickie Panek, Co-founder and Owner of Talent Management Group in a forthright and common sense conversation about seeking and working within representation, casting submissions, talent rates and more.  Check out the Talent Represented by TMG online. Get additional content from my interview with Vickie Panek on the “In the Telling” Podcast channel on YouTube

You can find out more about “In the Telling” at lizzylizzyliz.com
Theme music by Gordon Vetas

Episode extra, not a good fit for being Talent in the industry

Transcript

Vickie Panek:   0:00
it is a buyer beware industry.  

Liz Christensen:   0:02
The voice you just heard belongs to Vicky Panic.

Vickie Panek:   0:05
I'm the owner of Talent Management Group, better known as TMG. We've been in business for almost 24 years, and we're in agency only were what this called the true agency. So we don't offer workshops or photo sessions or make money any other way other than our commissions off of bookings.

Liz Christensen:   0:24
I enjoyed the forthright and common sense conversation with Vicky about seeking and working within representation, casting submissions, talent rates and more. I'm your host Liz Christensen. And it's all in the telling Welcome to Episode 27 with My Guest, Vicky Panic of Talent Management Group. Listen through to the end of the episode to hear the episode extra some conversation with Vicky about how not everyone is a talent and what, maybe something that makes you or your child not a good fit with the industry. Tell me how long team he's been around 24

Vickie Panek:   1:01
years in April we were founded in 1996

Liz Christensen:   1:04
and how long have you been part of that?

Vickie Panek:   1:06
Well, I co founded it. I've been on my own now for 14 years, now. I had a partner for the 1st 10 and I started in the business in the seventies. You can probably tell him a little older, but I've learned a lot from a lot of different people, a lot of stair steps to get where I am. The agency was founded as a true agency. It did not offer workshops or classes. You know, in other words, there's not another cash flow stream is just purely from our bookings, which we get 15 to 20% from producers, sometimes just 10%. If it's union.

Liz Christensen:   1:42
I didn't realize that that distinction was union versus non union The terms of the commission's

Vickie Panek:   1:47
Yeah, well with union, you have to realize that if it were commercial, there could potentially be residuals and we could

Liz Christensen:   1:53
all benefit. Oh, agents are getting residuals off of that as well. Well, the there's a talent

Vickie Panek:   1:58
commission that needs to be paid but generally were paid just plus 10%. And the talent is not paying anything to us on union shoots, but on non union. In order to survive like ad agencies like marketing groups of any sort, you have to try to at least get 30%. So you get a plus and a minus in a non union market. Otherwise we would not be in business at all. Out of state clients will always pay us plus 20% liken print video commercials, anything like that that we d'oh

Liz Christensen:   2:28
talk to me about how somebody gets started when somebody is typically saying, I think I want to get an agent. Um and they're coming from some level of film experience. Is that different than somebody who comes from, perhaps of theatrical background or, um, singing? And I'm a beautiful person background where they have never been on camera, Maybe. But they have related skills, right? Is it kind of the same or is there a difference? Well, when we

Vickie Panek:   2:59
bring someone in that were interested in, we want to see how broad they can actually work. If you were the talent, the more you can bring to the table, the more valuable you are to us and the more opportunities we can offer you. So if an individual is only film, say, for example, we're going to have them do, Cold reads. We're going to give them a variety so we can see just how comfortable they are, how capable they are and how they have well, they can take direction. If they happen to also have a great look, then we're going to look at them for print as well, because it's not all that challenging. I mean, as an actor, if their theatrical, we're going to see in a moment that they're over the top, probably. And we'll have to bring them down and find out if they can actually eventually confine themselves to realizing there's a mic overhead or close by. And it does take time often if there's a person who's very theatrical. But if they haven't understanding that the room's air very, very different than in time, they will acclimating very well.

Liz Christensen:   4:02
So you're looking in like an interview audition typesetting

Vickie Panek:   4:06
when we bring people in for representation. Yeah, yes, absolutely. We spend usually about an hour with a person that were interested in potentially representing. We don't offer representation to everyone that we meet. We don't always see everyone that submits, and right now we're not seen anyone at all, because we're very content and happy with those that we are representing. But if we bring a person in. We're going to, you know, talk to them like real people. Just, you know, tell me about yourself. I want to know where you grew up, what your interests are. Why do you like acting or modeling or whatever it is and get a feel for the individual? Because our main goal is to find people to represent that are basically nice, Have a passion for what they do, can be relied upon and respond quickly to never changing fast paced business. And

Liz Christensen:   4:59
how you assessing that skill? The responding quickly, we'll find out

Vickie Panek:   5:02
in a hurry when they write to us and they want representation. We're going to analyze how they right if they respond quickly to request to come in and if there are no show, Obviously, that tells us a lot. And we don't bring him back again. If they're no show, no matter. If we really thought they were a good option, you know, they've either for gotten and they, you know, just maybe they found representation Otherwise, too, because we're generally booked out quite a ways. So, you know, we understand that could happen as well.

Liz Christensen:   5:33
Okay, So you're looking for talent, obviously, but Ah, professionalism,

Vickie Panek:   5:39
yes, professionalism, ability to speak well, to communicate. Well, just be a pleasant person to be around, because then they're going to be, hopefully somebody that a producer would invite back, you know, pleasant Here, pleasant there. And also talent is our phase. In so many ways, they are our reputation, not just us. I mean, we're half of it, for sure. But you know our talent tell a big story about how we work in the professionalism that we want to support and maintain.

Liz Christensen:   6:12
When you are taking submissions, what does that entail?

Vickie Panek:   6:16
They should send us if they haven't already. If they're an actor, their current head shot, their current resume and current pictures

Liz Christensen:   6:27
don't talk about current because there's some subtext of that working

Vickie Panek:   6:30
the others. A lot of subtext to that current is very, very important, because in today's society everything can be tweaked, and we need to know what a person looks like. Looks like right now, producers want to know what you look like right now. Even when we put up a page on a rub site, we're not going to promote a person if we know their pictures are outdated, it's not fair. It's not honest. And we need to know through the interview process that the talent understands they have a commitment to us to provide current materials to promote them with including demos. Demos would not be something that you did 10 years ago, but something that you've done. We're currently and lots of times it takes a while to to develop that and also to get copies of things. And you've got to be very tenacious to get copies of your work, and we can help on that. But the talent needs to do that also, when their onset say, I would love to include a portion of this and my demo, you know, how would I be able to obtain a portion, you know, just right in there, Telemann. And hopefully they'll guide you as an actor and say, You know, check back with me in two weeks or something like that. You just don't want too much time to pass because in their onto the next project

Liz Christensen:   7:46
and you and you look different. Yeah,

Vickie Panek:   7:48
well, hopefully you know, you want to maintain your look to complement what's on your page on the website. That's what they think they're getting, and that's what we think we're getting. And it's also why a lot of producers photographers before booking. If, let's say if it's a direct booking, so there's no audition or go see involved, it's where you're going to get the job. But they're going. They're going to ask for a current selfie and a current selfie is not after you get all dolled up. It's just like you right now. Take your picture and send it to me. They want to see that you look like what they think. You look like

Liz Christensen:   8:26
how much, um, off camera work had to go into your head shot men of anything.

Vickie Panek:   8:31
I mean, it's very important that we it's so much more comfortable to imagine walking in when you've been booked on a job and you don't look like what they think. And the energy totally changes. It becomes awkward, it becomes uncomfortable. The whole thing just gets off on the wrong foot, you know? So you know Yes, we get wrinkles. Yes, we get older. Yes, we change our hair. You better look like your pictures. A touch of photo shot maybe is OK, but not a lot you know, we have to think of ourselves. If we're a talent as a palate to be painted on or to add whatever they want to add, we don't get to do that where we need to come in with a clean slate.

Liz Christensen:   9:14
Do you think that people who understand that do they kind of maintain a similar look for themselves consistently over time?

Vickie Panek:   9:22
Yes. And if they change their look, they know the first thing they have to do is go get new pictures. Because if if a girl had long hair and she cuts her hair short all of a sudden, it's like Okay, well, we can't promote you till we get those new pictures. There will be exceptions to everything. If I felt like a person who just cut their hair is perfect for the role, I'm gonna tell the producer she's, you know, just change your hair. She's getting new headshots, but I really wanted to see her and or today's society 80% of it is. Put yourself on tape so you can do it from your home and saved you a lot of time and energy. But you have to be able to self direct. Very

Liz Christensen:   10:00
well. Talk to me about what you mean by that.

Vickie Panek:   10:03
You have to put yourself on camera s so that people can hear you, that the lighting is good. Your audition is not in front of your bedroom, unmade bed or, you know, a busy, busy background. It should be in front of, ah, solid wall or a solid sheet or something that's not going to be distracting. And then you need to either have it memorized so that you can have really good eye contact and or you need to use an IPAD iPod type of teleprompter. I mean, they haven't for phones. It's crazy the things that are available to us, so there's no reason not to. But if you could memorize and do a really good presentation, that's the best thing to do. Always with good lighting, good sound. And if you're reading against someone, make sure that you're louder than the reader.

Liz Christensen:   10:53
Oh, because they might be behind the camera operating for you as well. Exactly. Yeah. Does it matter if that person acts the reader? No, not really. It's very straightforward. Answer. No, no, no. Don't worry about it. Well,

Vickie Panek:   11:09
I mean it helps, I suppose. But honestly, it's not about them, you know, it's just about the talent being able to present their role and do it believably and do it well, you know, the way you come on and where you go off to, you know, instead of having some crazy phase at the end of it, you know, there's lots of things that people can do to just to evaluate. Before I send this, I'm gonna look at it and see how it comes across.

Liz Christensen:   11:37
So when you say self direct, if I can put it in my own words and re articulated back to you, you're looking for like a level of meticulous, meticulous, choosy nous So doing it, you know, precise, I guess. But on a broad array or a variety of elements as well, make sure that I'm gonna be precise about my lighting of a precise about Yes. Although

Vickie Panek:   12:01
your audio, you're lighting your even what you wear, you know you want to wear something that's appropriate to the character, not like costume in or anything like that, that busy patterns don't show. Well, you know, solids are always better. Make sure your hair's on hanging down in your face. Make sure you don't look like you just got out of bed. You know, try to present yourself in a professional manner. Come on with a professional etiquette, and you don't necessarily need to slate when you do a self Tate, because we're going to mark them anyway. So I

Liz Christensen:   12:33
mean, by Mark them,

Vickie Panek:   12:34
Well, they'll be named, you know, when we send them. When we compiled them, they'll be Mark, so everybody will know. Okay. You are, like, on the file name. Yeah, exactly. You don't really need to take time to Slate, but there are some occasions where people like to show a full length shot at the beginning. May want you to describe how tall you are and then go into your read.

Liz Christensen:   12:57
Actually, I do kind of want to ask you about that, because at least in musical theater, we have some pretty strong opinions about how to handle auditioning sick. Yes. Um, you're interviewing a little under the weather with me today. So is how would you? What do you tell your talent about auditioning? Sick?

Vickie Panek:   13:15
Obviously, if a person's really ill, especially if it's in person, they probably should not go. That wouldn't be fair if they're auditioning at home. Hopefully, if there no more Nasal Lee than I am right now, they can probably get by with it. But like I'm chewing gum right now because it helps me from coughing. And if you can manage that without showing the gum while you talk, that's good. That's one thing that bothers me a lot, you know, chewing gum. I saw somebody the other day that was in, and they were chewing blue gum, and it was all I could see when they were chatting. But you want to hide it if you can. Warm teas and honey water and anything at all that could help your voice and throat. You know, when it's the most important nous. When let's say we're doing a pickup to whatever it may be on camera or voice over, your voice cannot be compromised. It needs to sound the same, and professionals who would call and say, Hey, I'm a little under the weather. I know we got that session Tomorrow. I want you to listen to my voice and see, you know, do I sound okay then you know, Then I'll assess it and say, Well, I'm not sure it sounds a little rough right now, but call me first thing in the morning. I'll let the client know in the meantime where we are and if we can postpone it a day or two, we will. But it's very, very important to be completely upfront and honest with everybody because it does no one any good to shoot. And if you're going to be compromised and won't be able to use it, probably and then there's bad feelings and, you know, it's just awkward, you know, just just get judgment, really. And then today, of course, I mean, everybody's a little extra nervous. So I saw things and and what bacterial hand sanitizers and all of that stuff. But I would say, especially in a time right now, people are a little more sensitive. So just be cautious.

Liz Christensen:   15:09
If it's, um, self tape submission, do you acknowledge that you're sick or you just ride with?

Vickie Panek:   15:15
No, not unless it's really, really obvious. And then it's probably not a good idea to do it

Liz Christensen:   15:20
because they know that what they're saying is not what they're gonna get. Say well,

Vickie Panek:   15:23
yeah, you know, your voice will be compromised. There'll be there'll be signs. So I think from a professional point of view, you have to make a decision and just know there will be others. You don't need to worry and just let that one go.

Liz Christensen:   15:39
Speaking of worry, auditions can be kind of high stakes for some actors. Sometimes, at least, yes, what do you say to your actors that are having a little bit of, Ah, difficult time with the notion that they either didn't get a call back, didn't get the role, then get to the audition?

Vickie Panek:   15:56
Yeah, you know, it's an interesting thing. Over the years, I found there's a lot to energy, and there's a lot that shows through desperate measures to sometimes people just want it too bad, too much, and it sets up a kind of a wall. In an odd way, it's something that people feel. They may not understand what they're sensing, but it's a desperate nous of sorts sometimes, and I think if you're really going to do this business, you need to prepare the best that you can and do the best that you can and then leave it behind. Just let it be. Don't worry about it. Don't clamor over it. Don't. Don't you know, don't set your yourself up. We find a lot of times people are sabotaging themselves when in reality, they don't need Thio. There was one situation recently where one of our actors got booked on a job and it was a situation where he was reading against someone else. And he said, Yeah, I didn't get that one. I said, Really? How do you know? He said, Well, the producer totally ignored me. Spent all of his time talking to the other guy on guy said, Well, maybe that meant that you did a good job. And lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. He got booked because in the producer said he had all the nuances down. He knew exactly what we wanted. It wasn't a problem at all. Yeah, he was a shoo in, but he sabotaged himself mentally. He he you know, he went through that mind game of, you know, I should have done this. I should have done that. I didn't get it. I know it. I know I didn't get it. I Yeah, yeah, I should Yeah, painful at the time. and somebody found out later in the day that he had booked it. I notified him right away because I knew it was in misery. But we don't always have the moments to do that, you know. But it I think, you know, you just have to know. Sometimes you're right for the job and sometimes you're not. And sometimes it's not about that. You didn't do a good job. It's just like maybe you're too tall. Or maybe you're not quite the look. Or maybe your hair's too dark. Or maybe there was a backstage article recently that talked about 20 reasons why you don't get the job and none of them talked about your talent. It was your look. It was just, Oh, he reminds me of my ex boyfriend or, you know, she's taller than the lead or something. In some forms, we might consider ridiculous, but still it plays a part in that final decision.

Liz Christensen:   18:18
This made a lot more sense to me when I started doing film than theater. Yeah, because I recognized in a way with film that I didn't with theater at first. Just how much of a visual medium itwas He's my height and my weight and my skin type and my bone structure and all these things. They're part of the art.

Vickie Panek:   18:34
Yes, and with theater. I mean, there's more costuming. And then there's more weeks and there's more distance between your audience. Where is in film? It's very up close and personal. I know you've interviewed TC Christiansen, and he has a very He's a very strong believer that if he wants a purity, wants a real beard and if he wants under, Harry wants riel longer hair. You know, sometimes you have to adjust that, and I think there are. I think there are ways to do that where it looks very, very rial today. But I know and in the industry as a whole things have changed where they do want more authentic. So back before, we were so globalized and so capable of being seen in all rooms. If somebody's asking us for a Spanish voice over, they need to be authentic, they can't be safe. For example, a returned missionary who served time in, say, Columbia, are Venezuela are wherever they have to be authentic, because if it's going into a globalized market which is so much of what we do. It's highly recognizable immediately, and so it takes away from the authenticity of the project. Accents sometimes come into play with commercial work or character work, but when it's a

Vickie Panek:   19:49
lot of just a lot of

Vickie Panek:   19:51
things have to be authentic anymore, and I think that is good in lots of ways. So as an actor, you might find limitations that you didn't once half before you

Liz Christensen:   20:04
about Hominy people. Do you represent?

Vickie Panek:   20:07
Well? Our voiceover department is comprised of 50% of the her boy's talent or at a market, and a few overseas are actors. We probably have 100 women in, ah, maybe 150 male actors. We probably have about AH, 100 models, and I know we have probably about 200 voice talent in total. So at 6800 maybe

Liz Christensen:   20:36
Children folded into those mail a few minutes.

Vickie Panek:   20:39
A few Children, a few teens. We don't take on a lot of kids. A lot of producers will, with an infant or a young child will book their own or someone that they know they'll come to us often for ethnicity or pretty aware of the fact that we we have to have a variety of Children with various authenticity, ease from different regions and same thing with our actors. It's it's very big. We have a lot of talent we represent, and people, you know, say perhaps well, that's a lot it is. And it isn't because there are so many variables to every character breakdown, the height, the color of the hair, the skill levels, maybe even needing a teleprompter friendly person, you know? But we we want ethnic or we want 32 35. You know, you start deducting all of the things that are not what the producer Montes or the marketing director casting director. It narrows the field in a hurry. And because we know all of the people that we work with, we know their skills and we know what they can and cannot do. And we obviously, because you're an agency that just works off of our commissions, were very dedicated to putting the right people out there. It's not about how you know, I haven't sent Johnny out for a while. Maybe I should send him, But no, he's not right for the part, so we're not going to send him That's a waste of his time. And it's a waste of the producers time. And ultimately we want to give them our best options.

Liz Christensen:   22:14
It's not all about talent. There are important professional elements Vicki talked about that have nothing to do with character voices crying on cue or expressing subtext.

Vickie Panek:   22:23
Availability is so critical everyone should have a calendar that they reference. We have a lot of projects going on in our office, with three different people reaching out to you potentially for availability, for a project or an audition availability for a booking. And you better well know your availability. We

Vickie Panek:   22:45
have people sometimes they say, Oh, I forgot

Vickie Panek:   22:47
it was already booked on Baba Blah or oh, I forgot that I have this or that going on or I forgot I'm going out of town. It's just like, really, you know, I am amazed that people don't know their schedules better than they dio, but a smart talent makes a big difference for those that are representing them. Smart meaning that when you go out for an audition and if they ask for your availability, you say yes. But you also put down your conflicts. For example, If your booked, let's say Friday and I call, maybe John and our offices called in. You're booked on Friday, and then I call you and say, Hey, I'm checking your availability for Friday. You need to tell me. I'm sorry. I'm already booked. Not Oh, that sounds great. Because you're too lazy to check your calendar or two, you know

Liz Christensen:   23:39
are excited about whatever it is.

Vickie Panek:   23:41
Yeah, you know, it's it's always best to be so completely honest in all realms about your health, about your availability, about your memorization skills, about your teleprompter skills, about anything and everything that comes into play. If maybe somebody says, Hey, how how well do you, Ah, play volleyball? Oh, I'm great. I'm great. When Maybe you've played volleyball twice in your life, you know,

Vickie Panek:   24:09
because we have a

Vickie Panek:   24:10
skills list, we judge 1 to 55 is being excellent. Almost. Maybe amateur level one is like, Oh, I've had minimal experience with it. You don't want to present yourself a something that you're not. If you feel like you're short in some areas and work towards improving that if you are not an improv actor, take improv training, you know, learn to be comedic and because that's a big thing in our society right now, we have a lot of over the top kind of projects, and, you know, if you want to be considered for that sort of thing, then you need to take a workshop in that room, and

Vickie Panek:   24:45
then you

Vickie Panek:   24:45
need to come in and say, Hey, I just finished this improv workshop. You know, I'd like to kind of show you what I did or, you know, just bring us up to date on your ever growing skill levels because what we know is what we know. And we don't know unless you tell us your share with us.

Vickie Panek:   25:01
I imagine that takes up a lot of your time maintaining up to date communication with the people you represent and and assessing where they're at and what they're doing. Yeah, every

Vickie Panek:   25:14
time somebody walks in the door, we're going to analyze them. You know all that? They've lost weight. They've gained weight. Oh, guys, she's wearing a boot. Oh, my gosh. She cut her hair, changed her hair. But those are all things that we would hope the talent would bring to our attention so that we're not caught off guard because we're promoting based on what we know, what is on the website. And so it's every talents responsibility to always keep their agent current because they're representing you and they're selling you and talking about you and promoting you and make sure it's accurate. You know, it looks bad for all of us if we're not on the same page.

Liz Christensen:   25:50
So your ideal talent would be somebody who obviously is honest about what they can do, what they can't do, I would say like, may be honest about their appearance to isn't trying to look like something they're not. You know, authenticity

Vickie Panek:   26:04
is very, very important. We are what we are. We look like what we look like. Um, why not be yourself? Just enjoy who you are and bring that to the table. There's nobody like you. Everybody is very, very unique and one of the things we're having problems with currently, especially with women, and this is a trend. I think, in Utah more so than other markets because if you look in magazines, you won't be seeing this. We have too many young girls doing Bo talks to many young girls doing lip plumping too many girls doing lash extensions. You know there's some forgiveness more than ever on tattoos, but sometimes that gets in the way, too. But we have to remember that as an actor, as a model, you are an entity that needs to be worked with. So if they want to add lashes, they can. If they want to add extensions, they can, or whatever it is to change your look a little bit. But if you've already defined your look and it's not flexible, then you might be overlooked because they can't work with you. We know that there are several limitations that exists in our market, and we have to work with those. And I think everybody just needs to really appreciate who they are. You know, we're all growing older. You conduce a mild things, of course, but too many enhancements are not a good thing. Imagine back to T. C. Working on a period piece. You know you can't have fake nails, you can't have things that would be lie the period. So you have to realize that you have to be like a piece of clay that they can work with, and then beyond that, being a good actor, being a good model, understanding what's needed of you and being able to bring something to the table, everyone needs to bring something to the table. That's what makes you valuable. Makes from an agent perspective. That's what we're selling you for and why we will defend you and say, This is why this person needs this rate because they bring a lot to the table. They're good at what they do

Liz Christensen:   28:14
you're referring to, like some a technique of personality and approach. A process? Yeah,

Vickie Panek:   28:19
maybe they want an improv actor and they want, you know,

Vickie Panek:   28:23
put it in

Vickie Panek:   28:23
your own words, while a lot of people can do that and still stay true to the concept. And a lot of people can't do that. Maybe they need somebody that can memorize really well. So be honest. Can you or can you not memorize this amount of copy in

Vickie Panek:   28:39
this amount of time? Yes,

Vickie Panek:   28:40
exactly. We just finished a two day shoot over the weekend. Actually, where memorization was required by all 12 people were teen people. I think, you know, had to memorize copy. And we got the final script on winds say, which is pretty good. But it's still a lot to do to have, like 4 to 5 scenes, that you've got blocks a copy that you have to memorize. For my perspective, I'm awake all weekend thinking about crashes. Sure hope their own time. 7 a.m. Call time. 7:30 a.m. Call Times. Gee, I sure hope I don't get a message. But I didn't get a call on Saturday from one of the producers. And I, you know, held my breath for a moment, thinking, Oh my gosh, somebody hasn't shown up for somebody is not doing a good job. And he says your talent are so fabulous that we are ahead of schedule.

Vickie Panek:   29:30
Do you think

Vickie Panek:   29:30
that you can get the rest of the people to come like even 30 minutes early? He

Vickie Panek:   29:34
said. No problem. Let me see what

Vickie Panek:   29:35
I can do, you know. But for that brief moment, I held my breath because I I worry. I'm like a mom over all these Children, making sure they're on time, that they take the right wardrobe, that it's pressed and put together that their script is in condition, you know, they got everything down they're gonna be perfect and or if it's a model, that there on time and they bring the right shoes and they bring the right right wardrobe and their hair looks like what the client wants and their skin's not broken out or anything weird that could happen. One time I got a message from a model and she had an allergy and her I just totally just puffed up, you know? And so I said, OK, send me picture and I'll send it off to the client because she was gonna shoot tomorrow. I said, Send me a picture So these things are very, very important. You know that we're the talents partner in crime here. We're not an adversary. We are your friend. We are your your advocate. You can't or shouldn't lie to us. You know about running late are not being fully prepared because we're going to find out because after the job, we always check in with the producers say, Hey, I'm just wondering how so and so did and how had the project come along, you know, were you happy with our people because we're going to find out when we're another, so you know, just be totally honest about everything. And it's gonna be a much happier world, and our trust in you will grow

Liz Christensen:   31:04
if somebody was planning ahead and thinking, Okay, I'm interested in being represented by TMG or anybody else. Let him functions the way that you do. Yeah, should they go on Facebook and start taking unpaid film gigs? Should they take workshops from his earlier point? It's possible in their preparation. What what kind of stuff do you suggest? That's a

Vickie Panek:   31:27
good direction for those that are very limited. As faras resume material, It's a good way to learn people that we represent. We do not want him to work outside of the agency, and there are a lot of social postings available today. So of course, we're very adamant about our talent being loyal because we as a group, we're trying to support maintain certain rates for certain types of work, and we also need to manage the usage. A lot of people are unaware of usage, but the time involved the memorization time involved. The usage involved all of these things air to be factored in with the rate. It's not just about time,

Liz Christensen:   32:07
will you define usage a little bit.

Vickie Panek:   32:08
Yes, usage can vary. If it's a film, it's kind of like, Okay, is this for years wanting to submit to festivals or you're planning to put it out in major theaters or whatever? If it's commercial work like commercial work, in the true sense, it would be broadcast. So is it on television? Is a cable in how many markets? How long will it run? 13 weeks cycle is how we measure broadcast runs, which is 13 consecutive weeks. If it is a crucial, sometimes people will call it that, and it will be used on social media. There's a lot of Facebook, as you know. I mean, it's social media is probably a greater platform now, then broadcast. So we need to know that. And, ah, is it going to be on the client's website or if it's print work? We did a shoot not very long ago, and it was for website and with the potential for transit on billboards and such. And so I just got noticed that the S we're going to do that. That's additional usage in the talent will need to be paid for that one time a few years back. We worked for the company and the talent called me and said, My aunt, who lives in Florida, just saw me on a building. I said, Oh, good to know. I don't think you were paid for that People live everywhere anymore. So they're going to see you and report back. That's why a talent needs to be very educated and aware of usage because the rates are established based on that. And so if somebody takes a booking off of Facebook, for example, and it's like a quick $200 and I might say, Well, okay, how is it being used? Well, I don't know. Well, is it a commercial or what? I don't know. They don't know anything about the usage. While our their competitive factors that we need to consider I

Liz Christensen:   34:10
don't know, competitive talk to me about competitive factors. Well, let's

Vickie Panek:   34:13
say you worked for a bank or a credit union. Well, if you're gonna be out there for a long time, and you got paid $200 basically you have to be taken out of the realm of being promoted for any other financial institution. But the talent doing things on their own like that, it causes problems that causes competitive issues. There's reasons that you want representation. If you choose to not work the way the agency needs you to work, then you should not have representation. If you wanna work over here and do all of those things that pay less, then go do that. But if you want to be represented, then you have to abide by the rules, which is everything flows through the agency.

Liz Christensen:   34:56
But do you really need an agent? Utah has a preponderance of Facebook groups for film actors and other talent groups and castings pop up there all the time. Do you really need an agency?

Vickie Panek:   35:07
You may not. More so now than ever. If you have a clientele, are a lot of people know you already? They might just go to you directly. I think what happens ultimately is people get tired of handling the financial aspects of it, and they're not as informed on usage. And they find that in time me are being taken advantage of. I think that it's a decision that everyone needs to make for sure. I think if you are with an agency and if you are extremely capable and well rounded. As a talent, you'll have more opportunities to an agency. But I can't speak for all agencies because I know a lot of them are schools and Meena put the same amount of focus in bookings as we might, but I think it's a very personal decision. We asked those questions, too, like sometimes when a person is coming to us and I know they are represented, I'll say, Why are you looking around? It seems like you're doing pretty good where you are. There's a variety of reasons why people might be looking around. But I always want to know what those reasons are because I want to know if they're valid reasons. If there's things that are unusual or a typical, then can we satisfy that talent to a relationship or not?

Liz Christensen:   36:28
Yeah, you're really matchmaking and seeing if it's a good football place,

Vickie Panek:   36:31
absolutely matchmaking with producers, matchmaking with representation, matchmaking, even personality wise, making sure that people are somewhat compatible, that it's more viable today. I think more than ever, as to why not? Why do I need an agent? The only complaint I've ever heard anyone offer as regards. TMG is you guys ask a lot of questions and it's I guess we d'oh because we have a responsibility to our talent to be able to fully informed them so they can make an educated decision. We have 10 90 nines that go out the end of January. That's a summation of all your income, you know. And if you work individually with anybody that pays you more than $600 they're responsible for sending you a 2 99 And so a lot of people don't understand finances very well and get themselves in a pickle sometimes. But you know, it's a very personal decision. Is, as I've often said, this is a buyer. Beware industry and you need to do your homework. You need to understand how it works, and if you want to be a part of it or not, you know it's not as glamorous as people think. It's a lot of work. It's fun if you have a passion for it, but it's not unease. E quick way to make money. A lot of people will make money. A lot of people want. You have to train, you have to know the ends an ounce of the industry, and you have to be competitive. An agency that's really serious about their business only wants people that are competitive and passionate and available. You know, sometimes people come in and say, Well, I'm available and Friday after four and Saturday and Sunday and unfortunately, the industry doesn't work like that. It's It's pretty much Monday through Friday kind of thing. Um, movies will work on the weekend, and like I said earlier, we did a job over this particular weekend, and it's usually because of location. But for the most part, you have to be available to audition and be seen during the week. If you're a kid and you're really good in school, it's going to be helpful or a team. You know, if you're in school, you want to be good in school so you can take off to go to auditions or bookings. And I knew a lot of kids were home schooled, but availability is very important.

Liz Christensen:   38:45
I want to go back to that quick responsiveness that we talked about that I don't think we followed through on Walk Me through a scenario of like your day in terms of when you get a submission or I don't even I think that that's what I want to call it. You hear from a casting agent what

Vickie Panek:   39:01
you're looking for. Yeah, Every day I know my husband's always saying So what's your day looking like? And he said, I have no clue other than the projects that I'm working on. I have about 40 on my desk right now. The emails now are the most common way of communicating. So producer, photographer casting director will send us information I need to shoot on Wednesday. This is the kind of person I need. So I'll submit a casting cart from the website of people that I think are suitable for the project

Liz Christensen:   39:32
casting cart from the Web site. Is this just a bunch of links that are already curated by you?

Vickie Panek:   39:37
Yeah, it's from directly from our website. So if you were to receive it, you'd see their picture with their stats, you could click on their name and it would take you directly to their page so that you could see all of their materials

Vickie Panek:   39:47
headshot resume demos.

Vickie Panek:   39:49
Exactly. Okay. And so I would tell the producer I have not yet checked availability. But you can take a quick look at these and see which ones you're most interested in. And then I will check availability for Wednesday. You know, I generally have to go back. All of us have to go back to whoever it is and ask more questions because we want to know is I have a full day of print work? What kind of print work of are you going to shoot video to Or do they need thio do their own hair and makeup? Or do we need to book a makeup artists Just a lot of questions so that we can go back to the talent with this much information as possible so that they can say, Yes, I'm available because it's important that they know what they're agreeing to. But what is the product? You know what we what will you be doing? If it's videos you're speaking or non speaking, do you need to have certain kinds of nails or no nails? Or, you know, there's so many variables. Honestly, it's just ridiculous, but you have to extract all of that information, and then we'll narrow it down to those people that the producers perhaps interested in he may or may not. He she may or may not want to meet them in person. Most likely not if it's gonna be shooting so soon will book directly. So that means that the talent may have to put themselves on tape, but maybe not that just booked directly from the demos. And from what I know about the talent, they may ask me a lot of questions about talent. And I can answer those questions because we know everyone that we work with. And so then hopefully equates to a booking. We work out the details of location, get everything, but too bad the wardrobe. Did they need to their own Karen makeup? Do I have a script they need to memorize? Know there have a teleprompter or whatever? There's just so many variables. So that's my whole day working through projects like that, giving quotes, casting cards, working with everyone else in our office, too, to achieve success basically, and to make sure that we're doing a good job making sure that we're responsible to make sure that we're connected with everyone, that we need to connect with them from top to bottom to our accounting department. Everything's pretty tight.

Liz Christensen:   41:58
Before it was time to go, I asked Vicky to tell me about her pet peeves representing talent. Pet

Vickie Panek:   42:03
peeves are working outside the agency because we worked so hard as agents to maintain rates. And

Vickie Panek:   42:12
what of

Vickie Panek:   42:13
my time is spent educating producers about rates and why they are what they are and why they should be what they are as, ah, talent agency with a group of highly skilled and qualified individuals. I would hope that each of them would be able to respond to those that work out to them, reach out to them directly when they have work and be able to say comfortably, Thank you. That sounds like an interesting project. I'll have my agent get in touch with you rather than try to figure it out on their own and negotiated themselves. Either do it behind our back or do it because they think they can and then say, Oh, by the way, you know, Can you handle this? I don't want to handle the project that you've already muffed up. I don't want to handle a project coming in at the 11th hour. I want you to bring us in immediately. So if you respond to that producer or whoever reached out to you, you have a responsibility to copyists on the communication so that we're in from the top. There are times I know where a producer will say when I'm not working with agencies. It's like, Well, okay, then that's where you have to make a decision. You either want representation or you don't. If they want you bad enough, they will work through the agency. What is the cost to the producer to work with an agency plus 15%? It's pretty minimal. But if it's not workable for the talent, then I would say you have a responsibility to release yourself from the agency so that we can bring on somebody that wants to be loyal. That's my biggest pet peeve. It's not fair to those that are loyal. It's not fair to those that want to do it the right way, and ultimately you're cutting. The rates which will eventually hurt our industry

Vickie Panek:   44:09
is part of that. If you feel comfortable speaking to this topic is part of that because this is a right to work state and so we get a lot of non union work, and film tends to attract a lot of people who, for various reasons, just want to try and do that thing. I don't

Vickie Panek:   44:24
think the right to work has anything to do with it. I think the social media platforms have a lot to do with it because there are people available to work. They're not all with an agency. So if that sweat a producer chooses or a photographer, then okay, we understand that. But I don't think that a talent should say I want my cake and eat it, too. If you're

Vickie Panek:   44:50
going to

Vickie Panek:   44:50
be part of the team, you have to be part of the team. Otherwise you're not, and you're breaking down the platform that standards that we worked for for years and years. If we were all in a union market, we would have standards. My partner, Linda, who started the company with me, came from L. A and when she came here to work, she said, I work so much harder here that I did in L. A. Because the rates were set, they were minimums and are you really had to do was just say he works a double scale. He works its scale and 1/2. She works a triple scale, you know, or just scale here we have to We have to work hard to maintain a rate structure and to educate producers as to why it is what it iss. And we also work hard to educate our talent. And so, you know, after a while, working for a little isn't fun, because the amount of work that you put into a non pain project is the same as if it were being paid or if it pays 200 versus, say, 1000. You know, the work that you put into it is the same. And so if that works for you, that's great. And that's fine. I just think people should should be honest about what they want and how they're going to work,

Vickie Panek:   46:13
whether whether they want to be part of this business arrangement, because I just want to take what they can get and enjoy it exactly together. Yeah, yeah, but you know, either way is fine. Well, you're in the business on the one hand, though. Not both, right? Yeah. Yeah, and lots of times, people say Well, I'm gonna pay

Vickie Panek:   46:32
my 15% commission. You know, my talent commission and I understand that, and I appreciate that, but I'm saying, but it's so much more than that. Let us connect with a producer. Let us potentially book more than one person. Let us find out. Can we book a makeup artist for you? Can we book voiceover talent for you? Do you need more actors? Do you need additional models? You know, Bring it to us. Don't just hoard it for yourself. Bring it to us so that we can hopefully introduce that producer, that marketing director at creative director, that casting director to some top notch people that will make their job easier. That will make their job more pleasant that, you know, people that will bring a lot to the table, cut their editing time, cut their production time, make it Ah ah, wonderful experience for them, you know, And that happens all the time, or producers come Zach, you know I can't work with people that are not trained anymore. It's taking too much time, and I think that a lot of people don't realize you know what a professional talent can bring to the

Liz Christensen:   47:37
table. Vicky was an informative and interesting guest with my own work in film. I've had people ask me all of these questions and more. Vicky's answers felt so satisfactory and sensible modelling acting in hosting concert nly be complicated industries, but professionalism, precision, common sense and expertise take a lot of drama out of it. Head over to the new in the telling podcast channel on YouTube To hear Vicky speak a little more about the Utah film market. None of the content on YouTube is a repeat of what's been included in this episode. The link to the YouTube channel will be included in the show notes. Thank you to my guest, Vicky Panic. Thank you so much for coming up in interview with me today, especially since you're not feeling super great. Hi. Feel better than I did Saturday. You can find out more about in the telling at Lizzie. Lizzie Liz dot com theme music by Gordon Venus in the telling is hosted and produced by me. Liz Christian said, Thanks for listening. Well, I

Vickie Panek:   48:34
think it's based on lack of knowledge sometimes and not being fully informed. I think when people come into the industry. They're hoping that they're meeting up with somebody that can guide and direct them, and that's been one of my problems. I guess I've always felt responsible for guiding directing too many people. Even back when I was teaching, I wanted. I want to teach them You can take all of these classes cause I've done the school thing before and I and I love it and I appreciate it, but it doesn't mean that you're going to become a talent, but it can train you and teach you howto how to behave more professionally or how to present yourself more professionally. Be more confident, perhaps speak with more ease or whatever. But not everyone can be a talent. It's just not you. It's just not for you. A parent can't be a talent for a child this disinterested. Sometimes Children enjoy it when they're younger because the needs air less and as they grow, it's like I don't wanna do this anymore, You know, this is that I'm gonna go play baseball are gonna go hang with my friends or something. You know, parents should understand their their position to, you know it's important that the child is ready sometimes will interview young Children, and if their addiction is bad, we can't take them. If they're highly restless, it's not time for them it, and it may never be time for them. You know, it's you're born with certain skills and you know you want to multiply those in whatever way you can and share them. But not everyone is a talent. Not everyone is model tall. Not everyone is model proportioned. You know, you could be a five foot 10 looking girl, but your proportions, maybe off. You may not have a long neck. Your skin may not be perfect. Your facial port proportions maybe not photogenic. There's a lot of reasons why you are not suitable for our industry. But maybe there's a niche for you somewhere I don't know.

Liz Christensen:   50:39
I think that's the part where people take it personally a little bit. I can't change my height or I can't change my face because, you know, you told me I shouldn't get Botox or plastic surgery or whatever. So and it's it's just really but not reflective of the value of the person. Yeah,

Vickie Panek:   50:54
but if the person can't be a model per se, they could maybe be an actor, but you have to invest. You have to take training. You have to develop yourself. You have to know what is expected of you. You know, it's not just I want to be an actor.